Grp C/Grp A/V8SC 'Where are they now?' continued...

[GTRMagic]

Its funny to see the liveries of not so long ago.

Take a squiz at the Larrymobile...



... the logos are on the doors.. horizontally... not diagonally like every car seems to be in V8Supercar at the moment

[paydirt]

One area I find interesting in these older cars is the roll cage...or lack thereof.!

[pete55]

I haven't had time to do a search but can anybody tell me what happened to the two Glenn Seton Sierras, especially the one driven by Kurt Kratzman in 2L guise.

[Razor]

Does anyone have any videos of the VK #05 "Big Banger" Holden Commodore of 1984 and '85?

[jd yort]

[QUOTE=GTRMagic]So where did this oldie end up??

I wouldnt be surprised if that one ended up in some sort of Auscar demolition derby at Calder Park. I think we lost a few of the old Commodores there.

[MHDT]

HMV will most probably be able to help you out, Greg.
For 1984 anyway...

[racer69]

Originally Posted by Greg Barton

Does anyone have any videos of the VK #05 "Big Banger" Holden Commodore of 1984 and '85?

Of the 4 races the #05 car did in Australia in 1984,

- The Sandown 500 can be bought through duke video
- The Bathurst 1000 review is available, as well as part of the 1975-1985 Bathurst review video (and if you look around on the net in the right places, people sell full copies)
- The Motorcraft 300 at Surfers Paradise wasn't televised (if it was, it was delayed coverage on ABC)
- The forgotten about race that year, where #05 finished second (meaning the car wasn't unbeaten in Australia as so many publications seem to say, was the Australian Grand Prix support race at Calder, which was covered by Channel 7.


For 1985, when the HDT had no further use for it and it went the England, you'd have to try overseas to see if any of the Thundersaloon races were caught on film (unlikely, the BTCC barely had any TV at that point)

Or if the car went to the museum, there's no footage to see post-1984

[Camaroz]

Originally Posted by racer69

For 1985, when the HDT had no further use for it and it went the England, you'd have to try overseas to see if any of the Thundersaloon races were caught on film (unlikely, the BTCC barely had any TV at that point)

Or if the car went to the museum, there's no footage to see post-1984

Racer69,

There is more and more evidence being gathered and being offered that will verify that the 05 is in the Bathurst Museum and the 25 is in Queensland despite the published recollections of past drivers and owners.

One of the reasons that the AGP support races were not mentioned (deleted from history) was because some interested parties in these cars decided to only recognise CAMS sanctioned 'Championship' races as real history!!!

[emjaya]

Originally Posted by Camaroz

that the 05 is in the Bathurst Museum.

It was once upon a time but not now.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Camaroz

Racer69,

There is more and more evidence being gathered and being offered that will verify that the 05 is in the Bathurst Museum and the 25 is in Queensland despite the published recollections of past drivers and owners.

One of the reasons that the AGP support races were not mentioned (deleted from history) was because some interested parties in these cars decided to only recognise CAMS sanctioned 'Championship' races as real history!!!

If "05" was so important though... why were you allowed to have your picture taken in it up until a few short years ago? Should this car not have been wrapped in cotton wool somewhere?

Could this all be a case of a certain former team owner not wanting to look like he dudded a customer 20 years ago by selling them the 2nd string car... nor a current supporter by having them rebuild the second string car as the winner???

[Camaroz]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Could this all be a case of a certain former team owner not wanting to look like he dudded a customer 20 years ago by selling them the 2nd string car... nor a current supporter by having them rebuild the second string car as the winner???

GTRM,

I have spoken to the 'customer' of twenty years ago and he was fully aware at the time that he was purchasing the #25, took delivery of the #25, raced the #25 as #52 and was then a part of selling the #25/#52 to DTV in the UK! He was never dudded, nor thinks he was dudded to this day.

[GTRMagic]

I hope Mr Farrell, and indeed Mr Cleland Sr were happy with their purchase of car #25.

When it returned here for Mr Champion's restoration team to rebuild the car as #05, it seems no alarm bells went off......

[Camaroz]

Willy van Wersch bought the car back to Aus in 2000. It was later sold on. The confusion over the identity only reared it's head at Sandown and then Bathurst in 2003 (the 25 years of Commodore (production) as the 25 years of Commodore at the mountain is this year!!!) - when the second VK HDT Group C appeared and claimed #05 status. From that date there has been a lot of further research and verification that was to be presented to the current owner, however, a recent version of events published in AMC by a previous owner/driver has bought things to a premature head.

[emjaya]

I have no doubt that Mr Farrell bought No 25 and no doubt that Mr Champion now owns No 05,what interests me is how is it so.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by emjaya

I have no doubt that Mr Farrell bought No 25 and no doubt that Mr Champion now owns No 05,what interests me is how is it so.

I know.. I know!!

Someone broke into the Bathurst museum, and swapped the #05/#25 car for the #05/#05 car before Mr Champion had it rebuilt.. without the BCC knowing about it, without a soul seeing it....

Surely these cars must come with some sort of provenance, a certificate of authenticity... namely a CAMS logbook that details the races the car attended, which chassis number related to which car etc etc which could prove empirically which one is which.

I presume if Mr Champion has the #25 car (which is still a historically significant vehicle, but you wouldnt lavish a zillion bucks on the 2nd placed car... undriven by Pedro Perfecto) he will be checking his provenance, and going hunting for those around him who said this car was the real #05!

As an aside, a cynic may suggest that having someone willing to spend a mint on restoring an old race car, as well as supporting a racing team for a stepson might have something to do with one another... the cynic wonders too whether Bevvo has some role to play here... and whether this sits on top of the many reasons (besides Mr Brock's new love interest) for the public implosion of their relationship??

[Monaro]

Many moons ago I checked out the 05 in the museum.Engine No. PB05 so I presume that the engine is out of the 05 car

[emjaya]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Someone broke into the Bathurst museum, and swapped the #05/#25 car for the #05/#05 car before Mr Champion had it rebuilt..

Or when the Bathurst museum sent the 05 car to have an engine installed by HDT,was 25 returned in its place?

Which would explain why upon 05s return from HDT,the museum curator thought it was a different car to the one sent away?

Like I said,Mr Farrell bought 25 and Mr Champion now owns 05,two different cars,how and why is the question.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by emjaya

It was once upon a time but not now.

I think it is in the UK now.

[Camaroz]

Originally Posted by emjaya

Or when the Bathurst museum sent the 05 car to have an engine installed by HDT,was 25 returned in its place?

Which would explain why upon 05s return from HDT,the museum curator thought it was a different car to the one sent away?

Like I said,Mr Farrell bought 25 and Mr Champion now owns 05,two different cars,how and why is the question.

emjaya,

The time lines don't match for the above scenario. The Farrell #25 went to the UK prior to the #05 being delivered to the Bathurst Museum in the first instance (October 1985?)

[emjaya]

Originally Posted by Camaroz

emjaya,

The time lines don't match for the above scenario. The Farrell #25 went to the UK prior to the #05 being delivered to the Bathurst Museum in the first instance (October 1985?)

I thought it was late 84/early 85 that 05 went,arrived and was sent straight back to HDT.The story as I heard it was that Cleland saw 25,wanted to buy 25,then saw 05,wanted 05 and 05 is the car that went o/s, 25 went to the museum in its place after Farrell had raced it.

I could be wrong and probably am,it was a long time ago and I wasn't interested at the time.

[Henry]

Originally Posted by emjaya

I thought it was late 84/early 85 that 05 went,arrived and was sent straight back to HDT.The story as I heard it was that Cleland saw 25,wanted to buy 25,then saw 05,wanted 05 and 05 is the car that went o/s, 25 went to the museum in its place after Farrell had raced it.

I could be wrong and probably am,it was a long time ago and I wasn't interested at the time.

I should just get off my butt and grab the book... I thought that the 1985's Great Race coverage by Bill Tuckeyalluded to the VK being handed to the museum during race week, along with the replica of the 1968 winner (it was only a 186S, but apparently they've rebuilt it with a 327 since).... but my memory is getting a little hazy with advancing age... must get that damn book out again...

[MHDT]

Issue four of the 'Brock' Magazine has an extensive article on rebuilding of the VK Group C '05' car, written directly or indirectly by the restorer (Van R--------).

It clearly mentioned chassis # 7 (the second car) was sent to John Farrell, and then on to the UK; and chassis # 6 went to the Bathurst museum, minus its engine and drivetrain...

[William Dale Jr]

Originally Posted by Henry

...along with the replica of the 1968 winner (it was only a 186S, but apparently they've rebuilt it with a 327 since)...

Not only that, but I think it had an automatic transmission in it as well!

I may be getting confused, but wasn't the replica nicked at some point during that week?

[Henry]

whoops, double post.

[Henry]

Originally Posted by MHDT

Issue four of the 'Brock' Magazine has an extensive article on rebuilding of the VK Group C '05' car, written directly or indirectly by the restorer (Van R--------).

It clearly mentioned chassis # 7 (the second car) was sent to John Farrell, and then on to the UK; and chassis # 6 went to the Bathurst museum, minus its engine and drivetrain...

What can we deduce from this? Which chassis is Peter Champion's? And if #6 was the 1984 winner, which car were they rebuilding?

And WD Jr, that sounds about right, although I can't remember exactly when it got flogged... the thieves probably brought it back disappointed.