Salary cap, Shmalary Cap

[Greem]

Come on, gentlemen, you're being far too reasonable with on another. This is The Internet, you know!

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Greem

Come on, gentlemen, you're being far too reasonable with on another. This is The Internet, you know!

I've been busy. I'll try and lower the tone later though.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by peebee2

I've been busy. I'll try and lower the tone later though.

That’s the spirit!

[S griffin]

Hey there are some things F1 fans will always agree on

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Hey there are some things F1 fans will always agree on

Steady on!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Greem

Come on, gentlemen, you're being far too reasonable with on another. This is The Internet, you know!

Strap yourself in - we can drop the civilised debate soon:

Fresh controversy looms as three teams set to breach cost cap

'according to a report by the Italian branch of Motorsport.com, once the FIA issues certificates of compliance with the 2022 cap, expected to arrive by the end of July, rumours indicate that a trio of teams will be found not to be in compliance.'

[Richard C]

Last year it was Red Bull free food. This year it will be Mercedes and their budget for training Brad Pitt how to drive. Oh wait, I said I was done with that topic!

Seriously, I am sure we all wonder who it is and if there is any truth to the rumor.

Richard

[Skam85]

And I'm sure everyone's location, allegiance, and agenda will lead to judicial rulings on each team or driver's guilt relating to the cost cap.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by morninggents

I totally agree that although called Red Bull PT their engine is really Honda.

It's called Honda RBPT on the entry list now, to distinguish from Ford RBPT which is completely separate.

Chassis: Red Bull Racing RB19
Engine: Honda RBPT RBPTH001

[Tourer]

Mr Domenicali prefers any cost cap penalties to be sporting sanctions rather than financial.Not sure that I agree with him completely - as a financial penalty reduces the effective spending capacity of a team in breach, so hits right where the rules break occurred. There ARE counter arguments however.

Between this story and the one linked in post #481 by crmalcolm, it appears that there may be teams in breach again this year - wonder if the FIA leaking system will leach out the names of the teams concerned in advance (again) or if they'll do the right thing and announce properly this time?

[chunterer]

There will be a certain irony if the suspected parties are found guilty, and they happened to be any of the teams refusing to agree to allowing new entrants on grounds of cost...

[E.B]

Originally Posted by chunterer

There will be a certain irony if the suspected parties are found guilty, and they happened to be any of the teams refusing to agree to allowing new entrants on grounds of cost...

That made me chuckle. So very 'do as I say not as I do' in every way.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Mr Domenicali prefers any cost cap penalties to be sporting sanctions rather than financial.Not sure that I agree with him completely - as a financial penalty reduces the effective spending capacity of a team in breach, so hits right where the rules break occurred. There ARE counter arguments however.

I had to double check because I wasn't sure if it worked as you suggest or not. But I think Domenicali has it right. Per the cost cap regulations, a "financial penalty" is just that. You pay a fine. It is NOT a reduction in your next years cap. However the "sporting penalty" (which has two flavors of minor and material) have a number of things potential avenues including...

* Public reprimand (minor only)
* Reduction in constructor points
* Reduction in driver points
* Suspension from one or more stages of (or entire) competition
* Reduction in aero or other testing
* Exclusion from the championship (major only)
* Reduction of cost cap

In addition to the above, they can also put in place extra financial monitoring

So a "financial penalty" for a team with deep pockets just allows them to reach into their wallet and make it go away without any impact on future development. While a "sporting penalty" impacts the ability to make the car "go fast" and/or "win championships"

Richard

[Tourer]

Thanks Richard - must admit that I assumed a financial penalty for breaching cost cap requirements would come out of the next year's cost cap - sounds like I shouldn't have made that assumption.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Thanks Richard - must admit that I assumed a financial penalty for breaching cost cap requirements would come out of the next year's cost cap - sounds like I shouldn't have made that assumption.

And to add, we don't know how much the teams have spent already on next year's cars. Even if they get a reduced budget for next year, a team may have already designed and partially built, maybe completely built, an absolute rocket ship out of the box that then dominates the next season/s.

[S griffin]

I would like to see better deterrent for those that do break the cap. It seems the financial penalty just isn’t enough

[peebee2]

Problem is you can calculate it ten times and get ten different answers.

The FIA is worried about legal action.

It was always going to be a nightmare to police, but I think is doing a good job nonetheless.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by peebee2

It was always going to be a nightmare to police, but I think is doing a good job nonetheless.

right! this for me.

that they are actually finding teams in breach speaks to the fact that they are genuinely interested in monitoring the cap imo.

gonna take this latest bit of news as a net positive.

[Tourer]

"Nothing to see here" (yet) on breaches according to the FIA.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Tourer

"Nothing to see here" (yet) on breaches according to the FIA.

Interesting article. I don't know if what they mention is real smoke or just the obvious area that people expect to be examined because of potential to "be creative"...

Under the cost cap, teams have retained senior staff by shunting them to peripheral businesses where they primarily work on other projects while contributing a small portion of their working week to F1.

I expect that when teams define workers are primarily or partially "non-F1" as a way to move some of the costs out from under the caps that there will be expectations to provide real documentation of segregation of their duties/activities and to ensure that their contributions to the F1 side are being fairly and accurately tracked from a cost perspective.

Richard

[S griffin]

Wonder when they will reveal who the 3 teams are being investigated? Certainly be interesting to see how much they breached the cost cap by

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Wonder when they will reveal who the 3 teams are being investigated? Certainly be interesting to see how much they breached the cost cap by

I think any official statement will only happen once they are done with their audit work. And even then, they may only name teams if there are penalties. All teams finances are examined.

Realistically it's going to be a series of leaks. And just like before it will be impossible to tell fact from fiction.

Richard

[S griffin]

Maybe they are only investigating and nothing will be proved. We’ll see if there is anything serious here. I’ll wait to hear the official statement and try not to pay too much attention to any gossip that might happen

[Tourer]

FIA says that it won't be rushed - might be a while before we know anything definite.

At least it appears that info isn't leaking out of the FIA the way that it did last year - good that it has got its house in order in that respect but it seems to me that more should be done to have the audits done sooner in the year - generates a big time lag on any breaches / penalties.