Parity Review Has Been Called

[bluesport]

Lack of parity still exists.

https://www.v8sleuth.com.au/mustangs...parity-change/

[Alan52]

Joshua Dowling has written today that Ford are out the door at the end of 2024 regardless of what happens from here on.
So Supercars are left with a single car class for a car no longer being manufactured.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Joshua Dowling has written today that Ford are out the door at the end of 2024 regardless of what happens from here on.
So Supercars are left with a single car class for a car no longer being manufactured.

Supercars may have signed their own death warrant.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Joshua Dowling has written today that Ford are out the door at the end of 2024 regardless of what happens from here on.
So Supercars are left with a single car class for a car no longer being manufactured.

Article from today here. Doesn't actually say that Ford are out of the door at the end of 2024 but it is of course possible.

Ford being "out of the door" may not prevent teams from competing with Mustangs without manufacturer support. Likely to be plenty of changes between now and then I think.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Article from today here. Doesn't actually say that Ford are out of the door at the end of 2024 but it is of course possible.

Ford being "out of the door" may not prevent teams from competing with Mustangs without manufacturer support. Likely to be plenty of changes between now and then I think.

Better for ford to stay i think but if they go they really need to put a caveat that the mustang name and body shape cannot be used in supercars otherwise they will be running around mid-field and damaging the brand like has happened in the past.

[Alan52]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Article from today here. Doesn't actually say that Ford are out of the door at the end of 2024 but it is of course possible.

Ford being "out of the door" may not prevent teams from competing with Mustangs without manufacturer support. Likely to be plenty of changes between now and then I think.

They will absolutely withdraw their IP if they go.There will be no Mustangs on the grid even if they call them something else.

[FIRE]

Why didn't they develop one chassis with choice of Ford engine/body panels or Chevrolet engine/body panels?

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Why didn't they develop one chassis with choice of Ford engine/body panels or Chevrolet engine/body panels?

That’s exactly what they’ve done. Only difference between the cars is the body panels & engine.

[Alan52]

Whatever technical parity criteria they use is pretty esoteric.Although I know one poster is going to shoot it down again the only parity that counts is parity in numbers of race wins.
That obviously hasn’t happened so one of the only two manufacturers is out the door taking both their toys and the instruction manuals with them.
A pyrrhic victory for those who supported the current process.

[GTRMagic]

What happens when the 2 championship contending Chev teams smack the field on the Gold Coast even after the Ford teams get all their new panels, engine tweaks and kitchen sinks…

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Whatever technical parity criteria they use is pretty esoteric.Although I know one poster is going to shoot it down again the only parity that counts is parity in numbers of race wins.
That obviously hasn’t happened so one of the only two manufacturers is out the door taking both their toys and the instruction manuals with them.
A pyrrhic victory for those who supported the current process.

Alan the poster you are referring to is an idiot and he's not the only one.

[High_OCTANE_HSV]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

What happens when the 2 championship contending Chev teams smack the field on the Gold Coast even after the Ford teams get all their new panels, engine tweaks and kitchen sinks…

They'll still complain like usuall and blame something else on the car.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by High_OCTANE_HSV

They'll still complain like usuall and blame something else on the car.

The very best thing Ford could do... would be to sign a 10 year deal with 888 for the homologation of and running of the Mustang for the same period.

The rest can make their own arrangements...

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

The very best thing Ford could do... would be to sign a 10 year deal with 888 for the homologation of and running of the Mustang for the same period.

The rest can make their own arrangements...

I think that ship has sailed.
.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Alan52

Whatever technical parity criteria they use is pretty esoteric.Although I know one poster is going to shoot it down again the only parity that counts is parity in numbers of race wins.

This isn't parity - it's communism.

You're saying teams should win regardless of the quality of their engineering, driving, or preparation.

Technical parity gives equal chance of winning if all competitive elements are at their best, which is the only time anybody deserves to win.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Mixer

This isn't parity - it's communism.

You're saying teams should win regardless of the quality of their engineering, driving, or preparation.

Technical parity gives equal chance of winning if all competitive elements are at their best, which is the only time anybody deserves to win.

Technical parity isn't true motorsport, in true motorsport if a team isn't fast enough or good enough they go back to the workshop and work at changing and improving the car, supercars is a communist category where you can't change anything or improve anything without the permission of the governing body.

[Ares]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Technical parity isn't true motorsport, in true motorsport if a team isn't fast enough or good enough they go back to the workshop and work at changing and improving the car, supercars is a communist category where you can't change anything or improve anything without the permission of the governing body.

What you are talking about is chequebook racing. You can go to open class racing if you like. There is a reason why classes all around the world have rules. I do think Supercars have managed the new car into a very small setup window with the configuration of the Gen 3. Now the whole field is running close to the same setups.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Ares

What you are talking about is chequebook racing.

888 should be in favour of that, it should suit them. If the pictures I have seen are correct, 888 had by far the most elaborate front uprights compared to Tickford or WAU items. It looks the 888 ones take hundreds upon hundreds of machining hours, and 888 can thus sell them on to teams in the "888 upgrade cycle" like Team 18 and Premiair Racing at a healthy premium.



It must take an outrageous amount of time to machine that truss bit in the middle with those little spars!

888 were also the original proponents of those truss-type diff housings that weren't completely necessary either, and sold those at a healthy margin too!

Is it fair that the ability of teams like Tickford, BJR and WAU to do nearly as well with their own solutions and ideas while spending far less money has been taken away in favour of "pandering" to what Larry Perkins called "boltie" teams like Team18 -- they just bolt stuff on and off?

The ability of a Ross Stone to say "those truss diff housings are dumb, they break a lot and need constant repairs, we've modified a standard banjo housing to move the Watts bracket further forward, it's plenty stiff enough, we can beat 888 and Walkinshaw and the teams running truss diff housings no problems" has been taken away. Surely this is not for the better?!

Now not just 888 and 888 customer teams are lumbered with an over-engineered yet under-strength 888 laser cut gearshift tower bracket, but everyone is. Though at least only 888 themselves suffered a failure (or three failures) from it, this time...

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Ares

What you are talking about is chequebook racing. You can go to open class racing if you like. There is a reason why classes all around the world have rules. I do think Supercars have managed the new car into a very small setup window with the configuration of the Gen 3. Now the whole field is running close to the same setups.

I was just responding to mixups communist comment and pointing out that technical parity is just a "communist" as any category out there.

[Ares]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

888 should be in favour of that, it should suit them. If the pictures I have seen are correct, 888 had by far the most elaborate front uprights compared to Tickford or WAU items. It looks the 888 ones take hundreds upon hundreds of machining hours, and 888 can thus sell them on to teams in the "888 upgrade cycle" like Team 18 and Premiair Racing at a healthy premium.

888 were also the original proponents of those truss-type diff housings that weren't completely necessary either, and sold those at a healthy margin too!

Yes well, people who can't keep up with the arms race go home and stop playing in the end. There is not the perfect class. Money in motorsport will always play a part regardless, it is just how big a part. this is a conversation you could split hairs on forever.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Ares

Yes well, people who can't keep up with the arms race go home and stop playing in the end. There is not the perfect class. Money in motorsport will always play a part regardless, it is just how big a part. this is a conversation you could split hairs on forever.

I don't know why you and mixup are scared of a bit of competition?

[Ares]

I think you are miss reading my post. Be careful what you wish for. You want to go open class, T8 would win everything year in year out. Bring back Penske and they will win everything. Money buys success. That's why rules are put in place to try a stem that, as much a possible.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Ares

Yes well, people who can't keep up with the arms race go home and stop playing in the end. There is not the perfect class. Money in motorsport will always play a part regardless, it is just how big a part. this is a conversation you could split hairs on forever.

By all means GRM did leave.

But teams like WAU and Tickford were happy to have the flexibility to engineer their own (more cost-effective) stuff and be somewhat competitive while doing so, no?

There's two sides to the coin, no? On the one hand you buy stuff in because you don't have those skills, on the other hand you might do things in house because it is cheaper to do so (once you've already invested in having a machine shop, fabrication shop, composites shop etc)?

Larry Perkins:
"At one point there was talk of a control exhaust. If a good workshop can't make an exhaust, what is the world coming to? We don't want to be a category of bolties."

Gen 3:
The exhaust is a control part.

:facepalm:

You've got a situation where DJR have to ask for dispensation to run spacers on the rear suspension, as somebody (not them) decided the Gen 3 chassis should be much lower in the rear than the previous car and this has messed up their setup philosophy. It's all a bit silly.

-----

In any case, a budget cap (similar to the one currently used in F1) was proposed in 2007 to make it a contest of engineering ideas and not a contest of spending. I wonder why that was cancelled?!

LEADING V8 supercar team chiefs are seeking urgent talks with the sport's administrators who yesterday dropped a salary-cap bombshell that would slash the budgets of the top teams by almost 50 per cent next year — and cut again in 2008.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/moto...10-ge3rhm.html

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Ares

I think you are miss reading my post. Be careful what you wish for. You want to go open class, T8 would win everything year in year out. Bring back Penske and they will win everything. Money buys success. That's why rules are put in place to try a stem that, as much a possible.

I doubt that T8 would be able to keep up with factory teams in an open class, they certainly struggle in the 12hr.

[Ares]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

By all means GRM did leave.

But teams like WAU and Tickford were happy to have the flexibility to engineer their own (more cost-effective) stuff and be somewhat competitive while doing so, no?

There's two sides to the coin, no? On the one hand you buy stuff in because you don't have those skills, on the other hand you might do things in house because it is cheaper to do so (once you've already invested in having a machine shop, fabrication shop, composites shop etc)?

Larry Perkins:
"At one point there was talk of a control exhaust. If a good workshop can't make an exhaust, what is the world coming to? We don't want to be a category of bolties."

Gen 3:
The exhaust is a control part.

:facepalm:

You've got a situation where DJR have to ask for dispensation to run spacers on the rear suspension, as somebody (not them) decided the Gen 3 chassis should be much lower in the rear than the previous car and this has messed up their setup philosophy. It's all a bit silly.

Yip true, I myself loved the freedoms to do stuff. With control everything that went, but you then focused on doing everything better than everyone else. Money still played a part. You didn't spend it on building trick new stuff anymore, it was spent on new control everything each round, fresh diff, fresh Gbox, fresh shocks, new brakes. Best personal, paid for. I am not a fan of the Gen 3 car, I see the concept. Two sides to the sword.