IMSA USCC in 2016 and 2017

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Regular conversation with my wife goes along the lines of trying to explain the classes of the different series we watch. For ELMS it was:

"LMP2s, which are the same as P2s in WEC, LMP3 which is new and fits in below LMP2, GTE which is the Le Mans spec GT cars, and GTC, which is GT3, so Blacnpain spec GT cars"

"Why are the GTC cars not just called GT3?"

"...I don't know."

Try explaining the mess that is TUSCC. My wifes a smart cookie. But she sometimes struggles with the classes because it's just a mess of stuff which doesn't appear to fit together properly. Prototypes that aren't LMPs, LMPCs, GTD...

My idea, and I know it's radical - classes:

LMP1
LMP2
LMP3
GT1 (What was GTE)
GT2 (What was GT3)

Series pick which classes they want to take and run them. Then it's quite simple as to what fits where.

I'm not picking on you...so, please don't take it that way.

So, if I were to explain this to anyone..

ELMS, LMP2 is the top class for professionals, LMP3 is below them, they have less horsepower and are meant for gentlemen drivers, then its GTE which are cars that can run at LeMans in the GTE class, then it's GTC which are GT3 cars just with a different class name.

Done...leave it as that... if they want to know more, let them ask, then add in bits about what makes them different. If someone gets confused off the bat, they stop listening.

[Akrapovic]

But it's not that simple really, and ELMS is the simple one.

The P2s are not professional only, the GTE class is fine, but then you watch Le Mans and that becomes 2 classes. And the GTC naming is just pointless confusion for the sake of having it called something different.

And THEN what if you're watching TUSCC that night? There's a bunch more Le Mans cars there, but a bunch not. And the Le Mans cars are restricted, and the GTE Class is a single one, but there's a GTD class which doesn't race anywhere else, which has cars that are slower than single make Ferrari Challenge cars, and there's (or was) a GTC Class, which at one point wasn't really a GTC Class, it was a Porsche only class. And there's LMPC, which has been binned for LMP3 in Europe.

It's only simple because we've watched it over years. It is not accessible to new fans. We all understand it. We all know how to explain it. Someone with limited car or motorsport knowledge is not going to pick it up well!

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

But it's not that simple really, and ELMS is the simple one.

The P2s are not professional only, the GTE class is fine, but then you watch Le Mans and that becomes 2 classes. And the GTC naming is just pointless confusion for the sake of having it called something different.

And THEN what if you're watching TUSCC that night? There's a bunch more Le Mans cars there, but a bunch not. And the Le Mans cars are restricted, and the GTE Class is a single one, but there's a GTD class which doesn't race anywhere else, which has cars that are slower than single make Ferrari Challenge cars, and there's (or was) a GTC Class, which at one point wasn't really a GTC Class, it was a Porsche only class. And there's LMPC, which has been binned for LMP3 in Europe.

It's only simple because we've watched it over years. It is not accessible to new fans. We all understand it. We all know how to explain it. Someone with limited car or motorsport knowledge is not going to pick it up well!

The portion I put in bold.... it's important because you are putting stuff in there that's just not "need to know" to indoctrinate someone into the sport.

I fully agree with the rest.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

My idea, and I know it's radical - classes:


GT1 (What was GTE)
GT2 (What was GT3)

Series pick which classes they want to take and run them. Then it's quite simple as to what fits where.

again... not picking on you, but can you imagine explaining the history of this?

See, back in the 90's there was a class called GT1, no not the one we have now, but another one. So this GT1 became LMPGT, and was eventually merged into the LMP900 and LMP1 categories. At the time of the original GT1, there was a category called GT2. No not the one we have now, but another one. This GT2 feature Vipers and Porsche turbos at the front of the grid. They renamed this GT2 to the new GT1, and eventually such great cars as the Corvette C5R and Ferrari 550 Maranello joined the party. Eventually this class died off, and GT1 ceased to exist for a time. But, back when Vipers and Porsche turbos were GT2, there was a category called GT3... no not the GT3 we have now... and this GT3 featured non-turbo Porsches, and BMW primarily. Well, when the above mentioned GT2 became GT1, this GT3 became GT2, and has been a great class over the years, with Ferrari, Porsche, Vipers as well as Corvette, BMW and soon a Ford GT again. Well, this category that was GT3, and then GT2 and GTLM, we are now going to call GT1. So some time after the previously mentioned GT2/GTLM was created, which will now be called GT1, a new GT3 category was created... well THAT GT3 is now going to be called GT2.. clear?

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

again... not picking on you, but can you imagine explaining the history of this?

See, back in the 90's there was a class called GT1, no not the one we have now, but another one. So this GT1 became LMPGT, and was eventually merged into the LMP900 and LMP1 categories. At the time of the original GT1, there was a category called GT2. No not the one we have now, but another one. This GT2 feature Vipers and Porsche turbos at the front of the grid. They renamed this GT2 to the new GT1, and eventually such great cars as the Corvette C5R and Ferrari 550 Maranello joined the party. Eventually this class died off, and GT1 ceased to exist for a time. But, back when Vipers and Porsche turbos were GT2, there was a category called GT3... no not the GT3 we have now... and this GT3 featured non-turbo Porsches, and BMW primarily. Well, when the above mentioned GT2 became GT1, this GT3 became GT2, and has been a great class over the years, with Ferrari, Porsche, Vipers as well as Corvette, BMW and soon a Ford GT again. Well, this category that was GT3, and then GT2 and GTLM, we are now going to call GT1. So some time after the previously mentioned GT2/GTLM was created, which will now be called GT1, a new GT3 category was created... well THAT GT3 is now going to be called GT2.. clear?

Crystal.

[joeb]

After the conversations recently about low car counts potentially in GTLM for IMSA starting next year we have this:

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/tusc/bm...ion-of-m6-gt3/

and

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/tusc/da...rowth-in-2016/

So by 2016 we could have programs from
Corvette
Porsche
Ford
BMW
Bentley
Ferrari

potentially not so bad now?

[MitchZ06]

It was never going to be bad, people just cry doomsday too easily.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

It was never going to be bad, people just cry doomsday too easily.

Unless of course none of that materializes. I'm pretty certain Corvette and Ferrari will be none too pleased to have their class inundated with GT3 cars BoP'd to whatever IMSA determines to be "fair"

BMW's Z4 is "technically" a GTLM car, it's HomDoc says it is, though, in the spirit of GTE(LM) it's a really big GT3 car...and it's very sticky, and it's very quick.

Knowing that the GTLM class was bound to be low car counts, it wouldn't surprise me to see a bunch of GT3 cars BoP'd into IMSA's GTLM class when they don't fit anywhere else.

[MitchZ06]

Point proven.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Point proven.

You've proved nothing.

[MitchZ06]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

Unless of course none of that materializes

Don't tell me that's not a doom and gloom statement, do we know for absolute certain what the entries will be next year? No. Wait and see, even if it's Porsche, Ferrari, Vette and Ford it'll still be amazing racing.

[MoMedic9019]

It's not. It's a realistic one.

Also, it's been noted that the Ford program is bound for WEC, not TUSC.

[seanyb505]

I haven't read too deeply into anything with Ganassi or Joey Hand, but I kinda thought that WAS a tusc program. Makes sense from a marketing standpoint. Is there a specific source for Ford WEC preference?

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

I haven't read too deeply into anything with Ganassi or Joey Hand, but I kinda thought that WAS a tusc program. Makes sense from a marketing standpoint. Is there a specific source for Ford WEC preference?

Global branding. They are pushing a European expansion pretty hard. I don't doubt that we will see the car in TUSC, but, my bet, at this venture will see the car run at Daytona, Sebring, and Petit..the rest of it will be WEC.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

Is there a specific source for Ford WEC preference?

No there is not.







L.P.

[Rcz]

I see Ford at LeMans but not a full WEC season so far.

If only Viper can come back along with the new cars...it would be one of the greatest years of GT!

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

No there is not.

Right. it's assumed that it might be a possibility. Just like all the cars returning to GTE with new additions.

[Rcz]

So about class confusion earlier discussed.

Imsa had it right in the early 80s. GTP, GTO, GTU.

It's kind of sad that small end GT cars don't get to race in the big series anymore, because there is a lot of interesting cars in that segment. I think the closest equivalent is GT4 cars now.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by joeb

After the conversations recently about low car counts potentially in GTLM for IMSA starting next year we have this:

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/tusc/bm...ion-of-m6-gt3/

and

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/tusc/da...rowth-in-2016/

So by 2016 we could have programs from
Corvette
Porsche
Ford
BMW
Bentley
Ferrari

potentially not so bad now?

I'll believe it when I see it,mr dagys doesn't have the best track record for his reported future efforts.this isn't the first time he's come out with a story about there's the possibility for this and this car.


Same for the Ford GT WEC or TUSCC,I'll believe it when I see it.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Lagunaseca_4life

I'll believe it when I see it,mr dagys doesn't have the best track record for his reported future efforts.this isn't the first time he's come out with a story about there's the possibility for this and this car.


Same for the Ford GT WEC or TUSCC,I'll believe it when I see it.

I agree, not set in stone. But if we look a little closer, BMW has a history going back to the last M3's, to have IMSA specials, so that could be a safe bet. We know the Ford is happening, just don't know if for WEC or IMSA I'd give it 80/20 for IMSA. Bentley is talking GTLM, have no history there, but GT3 version may have been built with this upgrade in mind. Plus Dyson already runs a Bentley program stateside and has plenty of history in IMSA. So yes, nothing is set in stone, but an optimist could see it happening easily.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Lagunaseca_4life

I'll believe it when I see it,mr dagys doesn't have the best track record for his reported future efforts.this isn't the first time he's come out with a story about there's the possibility for this and this car.


Same for the Ford GT WEC or TUSCC,I'll believe it when I see it.

Glad someone else notices.... written like atherton talks.

[MagVanisher]

Great to have BMW bring M6 into GTLM, apart from Bentley and Ford. All is missing is Dodge Viper...

[Rcz]

Well we still got to see what Porsche and Ferrari will do next year...

I still believe in splitting up protos and Gt cars for most of the season. GT should get a chance to shine in prime time.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Rcz

So about class confusion earlier discussed.

Imsa had it right in the early 80s. GTP, GTO, GTU.

It's kind of sad that small end GT cars don't get to race in the big series anymore, because there is a lot of interesting cars in that segment. I think the closest equivalent is GT4 cars now.

Eh, GT4 is pretty much becoming a run what you brung kitcar class, but other than that I fully agree. Bring back GTU!

[msd76]

I might get shot down here but I really don’t see the need for GTLM/GTE any more when you have GT3. GTLM is so full of waivers and BoP I see the class lost within itself and not needed any more. And it’s kind of sad and a waste of money they need to convert GT3 cars in GTLM just to make up the numbers. Anyone has a GT3 model they can race or soon will have, just have a GT class for factory/all pro drivers and GTD for Pro-Am.