The never ending Toyota return to Le Mans (LMP1) Saga

[TF110]

Anthony Davidson's birthday today, a nice young 34!

And here's a nice little explanation of Toyota's hybrid system

http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/ima...hr-graphic.pdf

[TF110]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/106860

Autosport says Toyota expects to be matching the 2013 Audi. The #8 crew also believes the gap to Audi was exaggerated.

[GT6]

Exaggerated by what? the fact that the audi was faster around the circuit than the Toyota

[rayburn]

Originally Posted by TF110

Anthony Davidson's birthday today, a nice young 34!

And here's a nice little explanation of Toyota's hybrid system

http://www.toyota-motorsport.com/ima...hr-graphic.pdf

Hmm, not sure I'd want to sit alongside that super capacitor though....

Thanks for the link.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by GT6

Exaggerated by what? the fact that the audi was faster around the circuit than the Toyota

Winning by a lap exaggerated the gap. The fastest lap was 4 tenths slower, they could also do more laps in a stint than Audi. What kept them out of contention was a wrong tire compound choice as linked to in this thread and the Silverstone race thread.

Originally Posted by rayburn

Hmm, not sure I'd want to sit alongside that super capacitor though....

Thanks for the link.

Same here. I think Audi's flywheel is a little more scary with it's noise, but they're both extremely safe.

[gwyllion]

Just for the record. The gap was a bit more than one lap. In time it was 3:07 minutes for Toyota #7 and 2:02 minutes for Toyota #8.

That is quite a big gap, considering that last year Audi was able to finish on the lead lap and within 1 minute in the races where Toyota dominated strongly (Sao Paulo, Shanghai).

[wewantourdarbyback]

I was quite shocked while sat at Stowe by how much the Toyota was porpoising at the end of the hanger straight. The Rebellion was doing it too, but not to the same extent, while the Audi's seemed much more stable in the high headwind. Can't imagine it was the nicest ride into the braking area for the drivers.

[Flem]

I stood at the end of the Hangar Straight as well and you're right about the Toyota's porpoising, it was very noticeable, the Audi looked far more stable!

Loved watching the cars at ground level as they went into Maggots, shame they can't shift that banner from the fence

[TF110]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Just for the record. The gap was a bit more than one lap. In time it was 3:07 minutes for Toyota #7 and 2:02 minutes for Toyota #8.

That is quite a big gap, considering that last year Audi was able to finish on the lead lap and within 1 minute in the races where Toyota dominated strongly (Sao Paulo, Shanghai).

-1 lap was the official scoring result, irregardless of the time difference. Last season Toyota had to pit more often, so Audi finished on the lead lap because of the late stops Toyota had to make. In Shanghai 2012 Audi didn't have nearly the trouble with the tire compound choice Toyota had at Silverstone last week. And Toyota didn't finish on the lead lap last race because they didn't double stint until the latter 3rd part of the race. By then they were already behind a lap. Not to mention the #7 took additional stops for the wrong call to switch to intermediate tires then back to slicks. I'm shocked they got the tire compound choice wrong.

[MyNameIsNigel]

As this has already been pointed out in the Audi R18-related topic, Vasselon confirms in the latest issue (no. 1905 of April 17th) of the French magazine AutoHebo that Toyota have been testing with some sort of blown diffuser system on their 2013-spec car. There appears to be strong suggestions that this system will be raced, most likely at Spa when the TS030 v2.0 has its first race outing.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by TF110

-1 lap was the official scoring result, irregardless of the time difference. Last season Toyota had to pit more often, so Audi finished on the lead lap because of the late stops Toyota had to make.

And in Silverstone Audi had to do one more pitstop than Toyota at the end of the race. I don't understand the difference

[TF110]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

And in Silverstone Audi had to do one more pitstop than Toyota at the end of the race. I don't understand the difference

The difference? Toyota didn't double stint tires at Silverstone until the last part of the race. Audi could have pit twice more than Toyota and still won because the wrong compound of tire Toyota ran. Thats the benefit of the double stint. Huge pit stop time advantage.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by MyNameIsNigel

As this has already been pointed out in the Audi R18-related topic, Vasselon confirms in the latest issue (no. 1905 of April 17th) of the French magazine AutoHebo that Toyota have been testing with some sort of blown diffuser system on their 2013-spec car. There appears to be strong suggestions that this system will be raced, most likely at Spa when the TS030 v2.0 has its first race outing.

Cool news! Thanks for that. I thought this was a possibility before and when mentioned in the Audi thread that Vasselon suspected Audi of it I thought he spoke of it because they were doing something similar.

[MyNameIsNigel]

Originally Posted by TF110

Cool news! Thanks for that. I thought this was a possibility before and when mentioned in the Audi thread that Vasselon suspected Audi of it I thought he spoke of it because they were doing something similar.

It is still unclear to me if Toyota have been testing with an EBD system or some other aerodynamic device "activated" by the exhaust gases. The comments that Vasselon has apparently made in the German Sport Auto magazine (which I have not read) suggest that Audi are using a somewhat different solution.

[TF110]

In the Audi thread I linked to mulsannescorner website. He reiterates whats been said here that Toyota noticed this and probably because they were looking for it as they will run their own solution. In other news Anthony Davidson tweeted they will be testing in Portugal http://twitter.com/anthonydavidson

[gwyllion]

Correct URL: https://twitter.com/antdavidson

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by TF110

The difference? Toyota didn't double stint tires at Silverstone until the last part of the race. Audi could have pit twice more than Toyota and still won because the wrong compound of tire Toyota ran. Thats the benefit of the double stint. Huge pit stop time advantage.

I still don't see the difference.

Look at last season. On the one hand, Audi had a fuel consumption advantage which allowed them to do one fuel stop less than Toyota. On the other hand, Toyota had a tire wear advantage, which allowed them to double stint the tyres, while Audi struggled to do so in some races (sometimes they had to single stint, sometimes the lap times worsened drastically during the second stint).

In Silverstone we saw exactly the situation, but the other way around: Audi had to do an extra fuel stop at end of race, but Toyota could not double stint the tyres (in the beginning of the race).

[TF110]

Originally Posted by gwyllion

I still don't see the difference.

Look at last season. On the one hand, Audi had a fuel consumption advantage which allowed them to do one fuel stop less than Toyota. On the other hand, Toyota had a tire wear advantage, which allowed them to double stint the tyres, while Audi struggled to do so in some races (sometimes they had to single stint, sometimes the lap times worsened drastically during the second stint).

In Silverstone we saw exactly the situation, but the other way around: Audi had to do an extra fuel stop at end of race, but Toyota could not double stint the tyres (in the beginning of the race).

There wasn't an issue with Audi double stinting tires as bad as Toyota had at Silverstone. They changed tires every stop for at least half the race.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by TF110

There wasn't an issue with Audi double stinting tires as bad as Toyota had at Silverstone. They changed tires every stop for at least half the race.

Last year in Fuji Audi single stinted the complete race, while Toyota did double stints

[Adam43]

It is about the whole package. Quick and you can't double stint your tyres, or slow and you can, both end up with the same over one lap down result. So I am not sure what the original point was!

Will the new car be quick enough to over come the tyres? Or let the tyres last longer? Will Le Mans be any different, will the tyres be any different?

[zanfo zanfagni]

mcnish explained that audi had a worse fuel efficency than last year because of the huge downforce and drag generated by 2013 bodywork and double plates. Tyre issues with toyota is a bit more complex affair, this year toyota uses a specific compound developed with michelin, last year they were using 908 michelin specs. However in my opinion is useless to talk about because toyota had tyres issues with new tyres used in the old ts030 2012. That car is history, now we need to see how the ts030 2013 will be competitive at spa.

[pkollo]

http://www.motorsport-total.com/wec/..._13042203.html

Indirect confirmation that Toyota will stay until 2015 at least!

[gwyllion]

Rob Leupen states that they will have at least one 2013 car in Spa. Lets hope that they can bring a second new car as well.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by pkollo

http://www.motorsport-total.com/wec/..._13042203.html

Indirect confirmation that Toyota will stay until 2015 at least!

And why develop a car for 1 year (except if the money is extremely tight, like Peugeot)

[vincegail]

Especially when the money is tight, it is silly to develop a car for just one year! Better to spread the money/butter on more years/slices of bread!