[WEC Race] WEC 2015 Round 1: Silverstone

[old man]

Have now watched the ELMS highlights and the only snag with having such a fantastic dice at the front of the race is that the GTE cars get even more neglected.

As I have said more times than I can remember, just as much effort and professionalism goes into a GT entry as an LMP entry and without them you would not have an event so please commentators, do your research into GT properly and directors, try to show what is happening please.

Great event, sorry I can't get to Imola

[J Jay]

At the risk of being Ten Tenth's most broken record, it's not a question of whether F1 deserves the criticism or not. Nobody on here is going to deny that F1 is currently in a sorry state or be writing angry letters demanding that the mean commentators should "Leave Bernie alone!"

The jibes don't reflect badly on F1 - they reflect badly on sportscar racing. This isn't a trackside discussion or a moment to opine on MWM or DSC, where I would still roll my eyes but eh, opinions; it's coming from the official WEC live stream. When I'm trying to open people's (F1 fans mostly) eyes to the wonders of the WEC and the first thing they hear is the "feeder series" joke which is then repeated more than a few times throughout the race it gives the impression of more than a hint of bitterness. Before accusations of melodrama come my way this is exactly what happened last year (2014 Silverstone 6 Hours) and why I am so vociferous about it.



As for the fact-based comparisons, they're fine and I understand and appreciate people wanting to compare the two fastest types of circuit racing cars on the planet, especially when they operate under similar regulations with fuel flow limits, fuel allocations and hybrids. Honestly I don't think comparisons to previous eras of sportscars hold much merit because of the quantum leaps in technology. Besides, if you want to attract new fans to the sport and they most likely are already familiar with F1 then that's what you hold LMP1 up against, both on paper and in the flesh.

Speaking of which, now that I've watched the full race ... errrr ... wow. Six hours of racing, and not a second was unwarranted, unnecessary or uninteresting. Granted, the extra spice at the end (Fassler's penalty) threatened to spoil the race somewhat - is there something I'm missing here because I don't see why track limits aren't just called consistently from the off, acres of tarmac or otherwise - but apart from that aberration it was a demonstration of the WEC at its very best.

[Deleted]

Good post Jay

Thankfully I don't think I heard the boring feeder series joke once in the race, or maybe I've become just so used to it so that it just filters through nowadays ;P While there certainly are still bits of obviously clear pro-sportscar bias and comparisons to elsewhere in the commentary, I think as a whole it's less than it used to be few season ago, or even last year. The focus seems to have shifted towards comparing what we now have to what there used to be in the realms of ACO. Hindy and GG did fine

Btw, I don't think it's only the "quantum leaps in technology" that being continuously hammered to us as the reason for so much improved lap times and performance in P1 though. Yes the current cars have uber hybrids and use less fuel and have less sophisticated aero and not so brutal power outputs, but the "old era" aka late last decade they are mainly referring to had

- heavier cars (+55kg/+75kg in '07 for example)
- engines were breathing through air restrictors
- the grids (outside LM) were much bigger so more traffic, also the P2 was closer to the pace and P1 privateer field was backed so harder to navigate through
- nearly every corner of every track was not extended by meters of widened kerbs/astroturf shortcutting area + followed by asphalt carpark
- 1000KM events literally ended at 1000KM whether it was after 5 hours or 6 hours so the mileage comparisons they were making on Sunday were sort of pointless unless you start counting from 2011 - and the the absence of SC but rather these short FCYs matters too nowadays

So there are multiple external factors dictated either by rules or nature of progression of the events

[J Jay]

Yeah, I will concede that actually. The race was *so* good that any commentary complaints are just a minor aside (as hard as that may be to believe after my last post...), and that otherwise Hindhaugh & Goodwin are a good commentary team who I'm content with listening to. It's not so big a deal that I'm going to take the effort to sync the stream with the separate RLM audio. Speaking of which, was it Palmer and Jones that covered the race, as well as post-race tech?

As for the comparison to previous LMPs, you're not wrong - although I think it was also a case of not going to so many Tilkedromes as well as every track now being surrounded by hectares of runoff - but my point was (should have been) that the innovation in technology employed by the factories is the single biggest factor in the increased pace.

[Giba]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Yeah, I will concede that actually. The race was *so* good that any commentary complaints are just a minor aside (as hard as that may be to believe after my last post...), and that otherwise Hindhaugh & Goodwin are a good commentary team who I'm content with listening to. It's not so big a deal that I'm going to take the effort to sync the stream with the separate RLM audio. Speaking of which, was it Palmer and Jones that covered the race, as well as post-race tech?

As for the comparison to previous LMPs, you're not wrong - although I think it was also a case of not going to so many Tilkedromes as well as every track now being surrounded by hectares of runoff - but my point was (should have been) that the innovation in technology employed by the factories is the single biggest factor in the increased pace.

Palmer and Jones definitely did the race as I listened to it at the track but haven't had a chance to hear post race tech

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by J Jay

At the risk of being Ten Tenth's most broken record, it's not a question of whether F1 deserves the criticism or not. Nobody on here is going to deny that F1 is currently in a sorry state or be writing angry letters demanding that the mean commentators should "Leave Bernie alone!"

The jibes don't reflect badly on F1 - they reflect badly on sportscar racing. This isn't a trackside discussion or a moment to opine on MWM or DSC, where I would still roll my eyes but eh, opinions; it's coming from the official WEC live stream. When I'm trying to open people's (F1 fans mostly) eyes to the wonders of the WEC and the first thing they hear is the "feeder series" joke which is then repeated more than a few times throughout the race it gives the impression of more than a hint of bitterness. Before accusations of melodrama come my way this is exactly what happened last year (2014 Silverstone 6 Hours) and why I am so vociferous about it.



As for the fact-based comparisons, they're fine and I understand and appreciate people wanting to compare the two fastest types of circuit racing cars on the planet, especially when they operate under similar regulations with fuel flow limits, fuel allocations and hybrids. Honestly I don't think comparisons to previous eras of sportscars hold much merit because of the quantum leaps in technology. Besides, if you want to attract new fans to the sport and they most likely are already familiar with F1 then that's what you hold LMP1 up against, both on paper and in the flesh.

Speaking of which, now that I've watched the full race ... errrr ... wow. Six hours of racing, and not a second was unwarranted, unnecessary or uninteresting. Granted, the extra spice at the end (Fassler's penalty) threatened to spoil the race somewhat - is there something I'm missing here because I don't see why track limits aren't just called consistently from the off, acres of tarmac or otherwise - but apart from that aberration it was a demonstration of the WEC at its very best.

All fair enough but I am currently watching back the full race and - Honestly - I don't think we did what some are accusing us of.

I'm almost five hours into a 7 hour programme and have so far found five mentions of F1 only one mention of which was longer than 4 seconds and only two of which could even remotely be considered as critical of F1 - The first three were the comparisons you describe, prompted by fan interaction, the fourth was a comment relating to the choice of motorsport that Jean Todt made over the weekend and the last I can find thus far was a reference to the relevance of technology vs gimmicks.

[wolfhound]

Gary Watkins of Autosport has added his view on what happened in P1 at Silverstone if subscribe.

He says it went with what was generally predicted in terms of the various cars strengths and weaknesses.

http://plus.autosport.com/premium/fe...358.1403130801

[Starfish Primer]

What a fabulous weekend, the race at the ELMS was a great prologue to the WEC exceptional race. I´d enjoyed every minute both days.

Thumbs up:

Racing, exceptional. Great balance in all the categories (perhaps P2 WEC was more decaffeinated) with fights until the last hour. We have to enjoy this championship right now, this things don´t usually last.
The P1 race was amazing, the first three hours were so intense I hadn´t realized they passed so quickly.
Nearly all the P3 cars got the checkered flag, I was very skeptical about them considering how late they were delivered.
Patron racing performance, very solid on sunday.
Richard Lietz charge on the 5th hour catching the AF Corses.
The Audi at Maggots-Becketts
The Porsche speed at Wellington
The pulled pork at Vale on sunday

Thumbs down:

April, Silverstone. Come on, Why cannot be moved to summer? The cold wind was ridiculous, at least this year we haven´t been soaked.
The Kolles P1, not too much to say the times and the performance says everything
People and the litter, it is not so complicated to keep it until you get the next bin or container.
Drivers blatantly ignoring the track limits, (hello Nakajima at Copse).
I know is a repetitive moan in this forum, but having to go to Hangar or Wellington to cross the track when you are at the wing is painful.

I´m so happy with this race that I´m considering to go to Spa

[GT-Eins]

We have added some decent WEC-statistics in our extensive Silverstone report:


For more see here for the statistic stuff:
http://www.gt-eins.de/Berichte2015/w...al=Statistiken

Here for Part 1 of LMP-Race:
http://www.gt-eins.de/Berichte2015/w....php?sec=r1lmp

... and here for part 2:
http://www.gt-eins.de/Berichte2015/w....php?sec=r2lmp

[airbusA346]

Originally Posted by old man

Porsche were to be congratulated on putting that beautiful car on display but missed a trick IMO by not handing out some PR stuff about the engineering achievements and performance, other manufacturers could do well to copy this example as the public cannot get near the actual racing cars for very good reasons

IMO It would be good if Porsche, Audi and Toyota etc sold merchandise at the races as well.

[Bob Baldwin]

Totally Agree !! Where can one get models of the present configuration and Merchandise ?

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by airbusA346

IMO It would be good if Porsche, Audi and Toyota etc sold merchandise at the races as well.

Yes, I'd like to buy something from each one!

[Giba]

Originally Posted by airbusA346

IMO It would be good if Porsche, Audi and Toyota etc sold merchandise at the races as well.

Same, I was disappointed that there wasn't an Audi stand at Silverstone this year like in previous years as I did get an Audi t shirt from there a couple of years ago. I think this was the first year in a while that there wasn't an official Audi stand selling merchandise so will have to wait for when I'm at Le Mans to get anything.

Originally Posted by Bob Baldwin

Totally Agree !! Where can one get models of the present configuration and Merchandise ?

Its probably still early for models of this years cars I would think and if not then it would only be from the car manufacturers themselves which are normally a lot more expensive than from actual model manufacturers.

[Akrapovic]

Good quality models of the current configs will take probably until the end of the year, maybe until early next year and even then it'll be Le Mans spec. There are limited runs done of some cars by request of the manufacturers, done by Spark, but these very early editions tend to be lower quality than the final product that you'll get later in the year.

[Flem]

I'm still buzzing after the race on Sunday, it was the best race I've been to in a long long time (I haven't made it to Le Mans yet). Furthermore before the start of the session with my running club on Tuesday I got chatting with another sports car fan about the race as we'd both been there, we were both chatting like excited children with massive grins on our faces.

If the season keeps going like this I'm going to be like a kid on Christmas morning each race weekend..

[old man]

It is not just merchandise that I have in mind but actual cars on display if at all possible.

When you take sponsors guests into the pit garage to look at these cars they are usually fascinated by the whole machine. This is especially true of the GT cars that are so different from the road cars from which they are derived.

If Joe Public could be shown the cars in more detail it would improve the experience for them and the image of the sport

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

All fair enough but I am currently watching back the full race and - Honestly - I don't think we did what some are accusing us of.

Fair enough, I won't argue there.

But if you don't mind me asking, are you watching the same youtube video we all have access to, or do you have a rip/copy of the stream from the source? If it's the latter (or otherwise), is there any chance of a full race archive to be added to what's available behind the paywall? As much as I disagree with the pay-to-view model it isn't going away, but being able to watch full races back would be enough for me to put my cash in.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Fair enough, I won't argue there.

But if you don't mind me asking, are you watching the same youtube video we all have access to, or do you have a rip/copy of the stream from the source? If it's the latter (or otherwise), is there any chance of a full race archive to be added to what's available behind the paywall? As much as I disagree with the pay-to-view model it isn't going away, but being able to watch full races back would be enough for me to put my cash in.

I'd echo that. Even if the video stream wasn't made available, having the audio commentary would be really appreciated. I know we can get the RLM, but having the additional perspective offered by JH/GG would be great.

On that note, there's a level of mild regret that the splitting of the commentary options has diminished things a little. Thinking back to 2011 in particular the commentary quality which made use of an array of commentators and studio guests worked really well and approached Test Match Special levels of entertainment.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Fair enough, I won't argue there.

Me neither as I didn't get the video commentary what with being at the race. I have listened to the normal commentary since. Quite enjoyable. Shame Paul Truswell wasn't there.
I guess it is an issue of reputation. I would say that feedback given here is based on a perception built up over many years not one race. It has just become a bit of a standard joke know.

I also agree with your point that it reflects badly on Sportscar racing overall.

I also think we are probably in danger of the discussion about it becoming as tedious as the comments themselves! Perhaps we should all agree to leave it for a bit and get on with talking about Sportscars. Still it's been therapeutic, I now find it less tedious and more funny.

But if you don't mind me asking, are you watching the same youtube video we all have access to, or do you have a rip/copy of the stream from the source? If it's the latter (or otherwise), is there any chance of a full race archive to be added to what's available behind the paywall? As much as I disagree with the pay-to-view model it isn't going away, but being able to watch full races back would be enough for me to put my cash in.

To confirm what others have said, there is no full race on the app, just 3 minutes of highlights. Which wouldn't be enough for F1 let alone a WEC race (sorry )

It's quite good that all of the 2014 highlights are still there.

EDIT: There are longer WEC highlights available on Eurosport On Demand and MotorsTV (if you can take the picture quality) is still repeating highlights of that and the ELMS race. Highlights of the ELMS are also on BT Sport 2 next Monday night and Wednesday morning.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Which wouldn't be enough for F1 let alone a WEC race (sorry )

In the noble cause of not-being-an-argumentative-sod, I'll let it slide this time...

I know about the various highlights packages and they're obviously better than nothing, but if any race was going to demonstrate why a full race catch-up service would be appreciated it's this one, where at any point in the whole 6 hours it was too close to call the winner. It's also a bit of shame to imagine so much hard work on the technical side is just binned it or raided for five second promo clips and then filed away.

Originally Posted by isynge

On that note, there's a level of mild regret that the splitting of the commentary options has diminished things a little. Thinking back to 2011 in particular the commentary quality which made use of an array of commentators and studio guests worked really well and approached Test Match Special levels of entertainment.

In principle there's nothing apart from other commitments and cold hard cash stopping this from being repeated, but those are big sticking points with the latter begetting the former. It's not as if Hindhaugh & Goodwin or Palmer & Jones have done a bad job (because neither pair has) but especially with 6+ hour races I would agree that bringing the commentary options together adds a communal quality and alternative perspectives from the incoming commentator(s) who may have been able to look at the "wider picture".

Hopefully studio guests at least are something that's being considered in the near future, perhaps when the stream/series/etc. becomes more established.

[outnumbered]

Originally Posted by GT-Eins

We have added some decent WEC-statistics in our extensive Silverstone report:

For more see here for the statistic stuff:
http://www.gt-eins.de/Berichte2015/w...al=Statistiken

Here for Part 1 of LMP-Race:
http://www.gt-eins.de/Berichte2015/w....php?sec=r1lmp

... and here for part 2:
http://www.gt-eins.de/Berichte2015/w....php?sec=r2lmp

Very interesting as usual & thanks for compiling these. The thing that stood out for me is the sheer consistency of all the GTE-PRO drivers - pretty much every lap for every car in a +/- 2 second window.

The LMP1s are much less consistent, but I suppose that's because they have all the traffic to deal with.

[Deleted]

Awful TV viewership figures are in

Motors TV 11,000 (peak 24,000) for 0.1
Fox Sports 1 121,000

N/A for partial Eurosport and streaming

[Artur]

The FOX one indeed look bad but keep in mind that F1's Chinese GP only recorded 210k and that is much more suitable to the average Joe

tv ratings of the past weekend's racing events, on USA:

Series x1000 viewers
Friday:
NASCAR XFINITY SERIES L 1172
NASCAR SPRINT CUP QUAL L 678
NASCAR XFINITY QUALIFY L 302

Saturday
NHRA QUALIFYING 318
F1 RACING L 211
INDYCAR QUALIFYING 164
F1 QUALIFYING 70

Sunday
NHRA DRAG RACING 589
INDYCAR SERIES L 341
MOTOGP WORLD CHAMP L 231
MOTOGP MOTO3 L 178
MOTOGP MOTO2 L 159
FIA WORLD ENDURANCE CHP L 121

Last year's F1 season finale had 473 000 viewers, for reference

[Deleted]

F1 on NBCSN is not comparable as it was at deadly 2AM Saturday night slot, WEC was 7am-1pm with big window for people having TV on on the background too. FS1 also has bigger potential market on households, 72,9% share against 70,1% of NBCSN

Besides LM, CotA has some potential on FS1. But when they'll eventually switch to FS2, that's when you will get the two or even one digit thousands. If Grand-Am few years ago got 7000 in prime time slot on FS2, how much is "6 Hours of Shanghai" gonna get at 4AM or whenever on same channel?

But for now it's the Motors one that's real laughable.

[TF110]

I stayed up and watched F1 saturday night. On the west coast it was 11pm race start. Not bad at all for a Saturday night. The wec started at 4am here on a Sunday morning. Not many I know even on the east coast wake up at 7am on a Sunday, not even for Church.