The scanner mega-thread

[zakeriath]

I think you will find that PC are using their mobil phones for communication amongst other officials at race meetings becoming quite common.

[m1fcf]

Originally Posted by zakeriath

I think you will find that PC are using their mobil phones for communication amongst other officials at race meetings becoming quite common.

And that is a perfectly acceptable use for an appropriate method of communication.

I think the request to not use the phones is so that you are not chatting to your mates about the footy/x-factor/strictly come dancing results when your attention has been taken away from the circuit.

[PaulPerkins]

Some interesting and healthy debate going on here!

Let me make it clear that I would in no way condone the use of this technique by incident marshals: as outlined above it takes a fraction of a second for an incident to unfold, and the act of consciously taking out a mobile, unlocking it and then pressing 'refresh' could quite literally be the difference between life and death.

And it's not because flag marshals are special (actually, there are some 'special' flag marshals out there ), but because we tend to work in a different way. For instance, we normally work in pairs, each looking in different directions, with overlapping fields of view, and each being the eyes and ears of the other.

On most posts, I find that I set up a little nest around myself, with my clipboard, programme, notepad, stopwatch and phone all neatly laid out around me. I routinely flick through the programme, make notes, check the time and so on. Therefore, pressing the 'refresh' button on my iPhone, which is already unlocked and raring to go, can be done in a second, so doesn't necessarily impede my awareness.

Anyhow, using a phone on-post is expressly forbidden in the regs that we all work to, so using the website I've cobbled together whilst on-duty is entirely at your risk!

That said, I found that at today's F3/GT meeting at Oulton, the website really did add to my awareness of what was going on.

To answer a couple of questions:

- zakeriath: I've just created a symlink to the source at: http://www.marshalspost.com/mst/index.php.txt You'll note that it's really ropily put together!!

- mattt: Unfortunately, the only data sent in the stream is what's displayed on the screen you see. There is a flag which is used to colour the lap time, but everything else is displayed as-is.

I'm glad it's of use, and it's nice to have triggered some debate!

Paul.

[garybirch]

Originally Posted by zakeriath

Strange, two distinctive train of opinions here, some want to embrace technology to help them marshal and others who dont.

Again nothing to do with not wanting to embrace technology - in fact I'd like to know if it will work with my local racing at Castle Combe.
I'm actually a techno-freak and love all thing gadgets... BUT NOT DURING A RACE ON A MOBILE!
I'm sorry but I'm totally against having someone on my team who should be looking at the track, trying to load up a web page on their phone.

[Robin_D]

You say about incident marshals not using moby's. Infact I would say that flaggies need to be even more alert throughout.

A good idea but a big no no.

[Asp]

Like all things, I believe that careful & considered use won't pose a problem.

No-one, during a long race, is always looking up track. The weather changes so you find an extra coat, you wonder who's in car X so glance at the programme - the list goes on. However, with experience, you now how this can be safely - trying to do it with a gap in the traffic; keeping half an eye on the circuit and/or having an effective lookout; etc etc

In some duties, it's impossible always to look "up track" - P/Cs whilst scribbling a note, on the phone the race control for example.

So, I would consider live timing via a mobile a very useful tool (particularly in pitstop races) to keep track of proceedings, and see no problems with careful use. If you're on your own trying to flag and observe, then you stand no chance in glancing (that's all it should take) at your mobile safely. Similarly, looking every lap should be frowned upon.

It's just about setting up a post correctly with teams, ensuring everyone's looking out for each other, and if you think that live timing could help develop an appropriate scheme - ask the observer to relay the information to you, have a "desk" with everything you need, whatever works for you. I certainly wouldn't impose a hard and fast rule on their use though.

[Burnsie]

Well-made point by Asp... having marshalled at last year's Britcar 24hr race at Silverstone, I have to say that a utility such as this would have been of great help. When the time came to take a break, it would have been much easier - and faster - to open up the phone's web browser instead of turning on the car radio and waiting for the commentators to give a position update.

Originally Posted by PaulPerkins

[Flag marshals] normally work in pairs, each looking in different directions, with overlapping fields of view, and each being the eyes and ears of the other.

What a luxury! I had thought that it was "normal" to wave a yellow flag in your right hand, red flag in your left hand, white flag between your knees, and talk into a radio held under your chin

[strider]

Originally Posted by PaulPerkins

Therefore, pressing the 'refresh' button on my iPhone, which is already unlocked and raring to go, can be done in a second, so doesn't necessarily impede my awareness.

I was about to ask if it worked with an iPhone or if it needed a Symbian OS, but you've indirectly answered my question. Thanks!

The only point I find slightly puzzling (although it really doesn't matter as long as the program works) is why you have 'mst' there when, as you say, the info is coming from TSL. It's identical to their live timing screen, except for not identifying exactly which race it is.

[bella]

without wanting to answer for the op, he's done some code to take the information the normal live timing page spits out and translate it into a minimal amount of data for mobile use. i'm astonished tsl haven't done the same legwork - i spent a long time last year shouting abuse at my phone for being unable to handle the java thingy their timing uses.

it also does identify the race - the title of the page changes when the series does.

[PaulPerkins]

Originally Posted by bella

without wanting to answer for the op, he's done some code to take the information the normal live timing page spits out and translate it into a minimal amount of data for mobile use.

Indeed - it simply squirts out boggo HTML -- complete with nasty tables -- so it should work with pretty much any browser on any device.

BTW, the reference to MST is there because that's what I know the company as...

[Justin Moran]

You geek Paul, just wish I had aphone it worked on! As someone who has had occasion to flag an endurance race it would/will be a valuable addition to information received via a scanner from race control. As has been said common sense dictates that a glance is really all it needs to ascertain the info, then I see no real or perceived danger from using the technology.

[garybirch]

So is it only the big events like F3/GT/Toca that this will work?
What about the local stuff?

[PaulPerkins]

Unfortunately not, Gary - it seems that TSL only offer the live timing service for the larger series.

[garybirch]

Originally Posted by PaulPerkins

Unfortunately not, Gary - it seems that TSL only offer the live timing service for the larger series.

Thanks.
And while I'm quite strong on not using mobiles, if there's a big enough team and one marshal is almost stood down, the info could be quite useful for them to impart to others!

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by Asp

So, I would consider live timing via a mobile a very useful tool (particularly in pitstop races) to keep track of proceedings, and see no problems with careful use.

IMHO, all this would be very useful, but a much simpler/safer option would be for RC to simply *tell us* the running order every 20 min or so. Even without official radios, a lot of us have scanners so could get the info.

No need even to look away if it's done this way.

[chezza]

I think this is a great idea, well done Paul, and with careful considered use it should be fine trackside.

I do not however agree with the positions being given out over the radio every 20 minutes or so. The radios and phones are there for emergency communication and if someone is reading out the positions that could be blocking a vital call.

[strider]

Originally Posted by PaulPerkins

BTW, the reference to MST is there because that's what I know the company as...

OK, but the two had a row and went their separate ways a couple of years. TSL does mostly domestic events like TOCA, BF3/GT and BSB, plus numerous clubbies.

The original MST is here: http://www.mstworld.com/

They do events like the WTCC, FIA GT etc. and also have live timing, so there's another challenge for you, maybe. Silverstone, first weekend in May.

Originally Posted by garybirch

So is it only the big events like F3/GT/Toca that this will work?
What about the local stuff?

Only if there is Live Timing, I'm thinking.

[PaulPerkins]

Originally Posted by strider

OK, but the two had a row and went their separate ways a couple of years. TSL does mostly domestic events like TOCA, BF3/GT and BSB, plus numerous clubbies.

The original MST is here: http://www.mstworld.com/

They do events like the WTCC, FIA GT etc. and also have live timing, so there's another challenge for you, maybe. Silverstone, first weekend in May.Only if there is Live Timing, I'm thinking.

Ah!! That would explain it!! Thanks for that

Looks like I'm going to be busy tonight

[OU812]

Originally Posted by chezza

I think this is a great idea, well done Paul, and with careful considered use it should be fine trackside.

I do not however agree with the positions being given out over the radio every 20 minutes or so. The radios and phones are there for emergency communication and if someone is reading out the positions that could be blocking a vital call.

Disagree with this. At a time where scanners seem acceptable and in IMHO when you're flagging are a huge benefit, the time it takes to read out the first five car positions, particularly during endurance races is negligable and in a alot of cases where phones are used as the main method of comms does not have an impact at all. A good radio operator will always pick their moment when to pass such information anyway.

The use of mobile phones trackside should be totally discouraged I've seen too many marshals distracted by them, regardless of whether there on silent or not.

[Asp]

Originally Posted by OU812

A good radio operator will always pick their moment when to pass such information anyway.

However good a radio operator is, if (s)he can't see the other end of the circuit (s)he won't know if someone needs to radio in with a priority situation that's just occurred.

Yes, where phones are the main soure of communication most such situations will be phoned in, so the radio op would then shut up and deploy appropriate resources. But they're never the sole source, and even at phone based circuits I've heard priorities over the radio on many occasions.

[PaulPerkins]

Update: Added a menu on redshoes' suggestion - thanks! Also made URL a little more sensible.

http://www.marshalspost.com/livetiming/

[Grandslammer]

I'm sure I'm mixing the technologies up here and therefore spouting gibberish ...but is there a way of converting the data into a computerised audio feed that could give out just the basic info of lap and say top 6 numerically,something that could be picked up by a scanner,portable radio or similar ?
Not referring to any commentary btw

[PaulPerkins]

Originally Posted by Grandslammer

I'm sure I'm mixing the technologies up here and therefore spouting gibberish ...but is there a way of converting the data into a computerised audio feed that could give out just the basic info of lap and say top 6 numerically,something that could be picked up by a scanner,portable radio or similar ?
Not referring to any commentary btw

Stop it right now - this is just too good an idea to pass up!!! Leave it with me...

[strider]

Originally Posted by PaulPerkins

Update: Added a menu on redshoes' suggestion - thanks! Also made URL a little more sensible.

http://www.marshalspost.com/livetiming/

Works perfectly on my iPhone. Sheer genius! Thank you.

[Burnsie]

Would it be worthwhile making this into a downloadable application for iPhone / iPod-Touch...?