[WTCC] WTCC 2009: News, Rumours, Entries...

[Hazard]

Numbers are awarded to the champion as #1. Then in manufacturers order.

Hence SEAT get 1-5 with their 5 entries.

Teams can opt out if they want like Schnitzer did with #42 and #43, but they decided those numbers weren't as lucky as they hoped with Priaulx always winning so took up #2 & #3.

[Matt]

There really should be a cap on 'factory' entries. 5 cars per team seems a bit much. Cap it at three, imo.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Matt

There really should be a cap on 'factory' entries. 5 cars per team seems a bit much. Cap it at three, imo.

So there's no longer a spot on the grid for BMW Italy and BMW Spain?

[helterskelter]

If the changes were only to make the car look better, they wouldn't have bothered to get them on the car for the drivers to try them! I don't think Andy will get an old car on the first race, it'd be a suicide IMO. That'd show everyone that there are Premier Works teams (Schnitzer) and second hand teams (RML and ROAL). Also, Priaulx should be backed at least as much as the others, for the superior performance he has shown against his fellow BMW drivers. I'm not saying he should favour a better treatment from BMW, but surely he shouldn't receive the car later than the others. Anyway, maybe they'll finish building the car before it's shipped to Brazil, and they'll keep testing with the test car.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by FIRE

So there's no longer a spot on the grid for BMW Italy and BMW Spain?

Pretty much.

[stedevil]

Indeed, what we need in WTCC is LESS cars that are competitive... or?

[Matt]

I wouldn't exactly call BMW-Italy/Spain competitive. They have flashes of brilliance, but are mostly a midpack team.

[stedevil]

You are suggesting cutting 4 cars out from the top 13 placed last year. I still dont see how even you can think that is a good idea. Too many cars on the grid in your opinion?

[Matt]

Too many BMW's and SEAT's. In nearly every single other championship, there is only about 2 or 3 factory cars per manufacture.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Matt

In nearly every single other championship, there is only about 2 or 3 factory cars per manufacture.

And in the same championships you also dont only have 3 factory team participating... If there was eg twice that, then I would understand you point. But for now the question remains, why do you want to see 4 less of the top 13 cars on the grind?

[AxelF]

I don't understand the advantage...and how you can control it. If BMW Italy wants to see Zanardi on a good car, they only have to call it indepents entry and get the same funds and works material. So Zanardi still runs behind the rest of the BMWs and Seats.
They only result will be, that no real indepent driver will win his class anymore...

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by AxelF

I don't understand the advantage...and how you can control it. If BMW Italy wants to see Zanardi on a good car, they only have to call it indepents entry and get the same funds and works material. So Zanardi still runs behind the rest of the BMWs and Seats.
They only result will be, that no real indepent driver will win his class anymore...

I completely agree. Also, a bigger grid makes the possible entrants more keen on entering the series. If I were, say, Toyota, I'd not enter a series with less than 20 cars on the grid.

[FIRE]

In my opinion the factory BMW's look less dominating because they are entered by different teams and run under the BMW Germany, UK and Italy-Spain banner. All the factory SEATs are having (almost) the same livery and are entered under the SEAT Sport banner (of course 2 of them are run by Oreca). Between the BMW teams there's some rivalry (e.g. RBM vs Schnitzer: David against Goliath). At SEAT there's no rivalry (or at least they keep it internal).

So I don't agree with Matt to permit only 3 or less factory cars but I would like to see more difference in the SEAT camp.

Originally Posted by helterskelter

I completely agree. Also, a bigger grid makes the possible entrants more keen on entering the series. If I were, say, Toyota, I'd not enter a series with less than 20 cars on the grid.

So no Toyota/Lexus in DTM? But I agree. A serious touring car championship needs +20 full season entries.


Any news about Campos? Why not entering 2008 Chevy's instead of the old Accord. In that case they can maybe step up to the position of 2nd Chevy factory team in a couple of years (Chevrolet Team Spain). Miss de Villota entered already some WTCC events with the Maurer Lacetti. I think she got some backing from Chevrolet Spain.

[helterskelter]

After the start of the project none of us has heard of Campos anymore, and the fact that Porteiro is talking to Proteam smells a lot of withdrawal. They chose Honda because it seems that the Japanese manufacturer had promised to turn Campos into a works team in 2010. That's the rumour that came along, though, as from the interview we did with Porteiro.

[10tacle]

But why have Campos bought the complete N.Tec Equipment including the cars? A works team wont race a 7 year old Model. The 8. generation is a complete new car and if they use smaller turbo engines next year there is also no chance to use the 2.0 mugen engine.
Maybe Adrian Campos has too much money, i dont know.

But we haven't heard anything about Lada, too. So lets see what happens @ the season opener and if the WTCC comes back to europe after the 3rd race.

[EDIT]
Are there any times from the Valencia Test?

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by 10tacle

But why have Campos bought the complete N.Tec Equipment including the cars? A works team wont race a 7 year old Model. The 8. generation is a complete new car and if they use smaller turbo engines next year there is also no chance to use the 2.0 mugen engine.
Maybe Adrian Campos has too much money, i dont know.

But we haven't heard anything about Lada, too. So lets see what happens @ the season opener and if the WTCC comes back to europe after the 3rd race.

As the rules are probably changing next year, he probably chose to wait until the end of this year to invest the big amount of money it takes to develop a new car from scratch. Same thing about the engine, what should they have done? Develop a new, 1-year-lasting engine? They probably decided to have a transition year to learn more about touring cars, since Campos Racing comes from single seaters, and when they are sure that Honda is coming in with a works programme they'll start the development of the new car, otherwise they'll still have 2 reasonably competitive s2000 cars to sell or run in Btcc, Stcc, Dtc or WHATEVERtcc
If Lada don't show up, it's not the end for Wtcc, I think...
I hope they won't use 1.6 turbo engines anyway, I don't like turbo and it'd be quite a mess to have different cars in Wtcc and in Btcc; even messier to switch all the national series down to 1.6 turbo series instead of s2000 series.

[THIM]

Originally Posted by helterskelter

I hope they won't use 1.6 turbo engines anyway, I don't like turbo and it'd be quite a mess to have different cars in Wtcc and in Btcc; even messier to switch all the national series down to 1.6 turbo series instead of s2000 series.

I also prefer 2.0 N/A engines, but times are changing. Much worse things could have happened to touring car racing, so this idea isn't that bad

[helterskelter]

I don't find it bad for the racing, I find it bad for the high cots of the switch. Also, what's the innovative factor in having a 1.6 turbo engine?

[10tacle]

The innovative thing is that more and more cars were sold with downsizing engines. Less cc, same or better Power, and less gas consumption.
The WTCC cars won't have a great effect why they drive nearly the complete race with full throttle but its the promotion and a 1.6 Turbo Raceengine will have neraly the same Horsepowers (or more) and a better torque from the low revs. So i think that the cars will become more lively in hair pins.

And if the complete thing cuts costs, why not... changes are always expensive for the short term, but this thing is based on long-term consideration.

[stedevil]

Also remember, TP will equalize things a bit by making the TD have less of an advantage picking up speed out of corners.

[helterskelter]

I explain my point better. Nothing against the 1.6 turbo engine itself, if it can be checkable from the rules' point of view, which is the doubt Jorg Muller has. My point is that of the costs and the difference between the Wtcc and Btcc, for instance. If international rules are released, and with a large anticipation, say, two seasons, the it's ok. But all the national series should have the chance to be up to date with Wtcc and the costs of a 1.6 turbo powered car should be more or less (less would be better though) those of the s2000 cars.

[stedevil]

If done correctly*, the turbo engines should be about the same cost as NA engines.

* = Standard turbo unit and consider it part of the engine package (turbo change = engine change) so people dont overstress the turbo unit.

[helterskelter]

Originally Posted by stedevil

If done correctly*, the turbo engines should be about the same cost as NA engines.

* = Standard turbo unit and consider it part of the engine package (turbo change = engine change) so people dont overstress the turbo unit.

I agree, and if it has to be done, I hope they do it this way, and subject to the conditions I explained before.

[THIM]

helterskelter, I guess all touring car series will switch to 1.6 turbos soon

[helterskelter]

Yeah, I think so, I was just talking about the way I would handle this switch, if it has to happen, like it seems