The never ending Toyota return to Le Mans (LMP1) Saga

[hotlavaaaa]

Originally Posted by ger80

Anyone a clue why the cars are different? See air intakes (read it on gteins)
http://www.toyotahybridracing.com/wp...s/MOY27149.jpg

Looks like last year's intake which would lead me to believe that car 8 is not a new chassis. Can anyone confirm that car 8 is actually a new chassis?

[Creep89]

Originally Posted by CyberMotor

The intakes are obviously different. What does gteins say about the difference?

Nothing, just speculating (2012 with 2013 upgrade?). This is why he asked the same question here I guess.

[FstrthnU]

http://www.endurance-info.com/versio...nce-18917.html

According to this author, Toyota would need to dial back their performance a bit to make it to 12 laps. However, it all depends on whether Toyota was sandbagging or not (and by how much).

[TF110]

The team has said the 2012 car's last run was Spa and the 2013 cars are from LeMans forward for both the #8 and #7, both brand new chassis'. Plus the airbox is not a part of the chassis construction.

[cdsvg]

Originally Posted by TF110

The team has said the 2012 car's last run was Spa and the 2013 cars are from LeMans forward for both the #8 and #7, both brand new chassis'. Plus the airbox is not a part of the chassis construction.

I'm pretty sure it is part of the tub, at least on the 2012 car.


Also on the r18:

[Coopz21 x]

Losing my patients with Toyota, are they just not trying? Personally I'm glad Davidson and Sarrazin are in a car together because in my eyes, for Le Mans especially, that 2/3 of a dream team....

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Coopz21 x

Losing my patients with Toyota, are they just not trying? Personally I'm glad Davidson and Sarrazin are in a car together because in my eyes, for Le Mans especially, that 2/3 of a dream team....

The "problem" isn't Toyota not trying, it's Audi trying too hard and throwing everything they've got towards beating Toyota as comprehensively as possible by outdeveloping them. This was also only supposed to be the TS030's first full season anyway. I just hope the suits don't get disheartened by whatever result happens this weekend and pull out before the big battle in 2014.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

The "problem" isn't Toyota not trying, it's Audi trying too hard and throwing everything they've got towards beating Toyota as comprehensively as possible by outdeveloping them.

In fairness, if Toyota really turns up with one 2012 chassis at Le Mans (not saying they are, but judging by the intake it's possible), that's nothing to do with Audi's spending.

[tux]

Lets just see what happens at the weekend yeah? Remember last year? No one thought Toyota would be anywhere near Audi but in the race it was much closer than anyone predicted until the accident with Deltawing and The Ferrari.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

The "problem" isn't Toyota not trying, it's Audi trying too hard and throwing everything they've got towards beating Toyota as comprehensively as possible by outdeveloping them.

Spot on. I'm sad people look down on Toyota, their anger should be directed at Audi.

Their excessive spending is what is putting this championship at risk, they are bringing a gun to a knife-fight and it's completely unnecessary. But they would probably rather kill off the championship with their insane spending than lose one Le Mans..

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by tux

Lets just see what happens at the weekend yeah? Remember last year? No one thought Toyota would be anywhere near Audi but in the race it was much closer than anyone predicted until the accident with Deltawing and The Ferrari.

Hmmm... if we discount Duval's lap from the test day, the gap between the fastest Audi and the fastest Toyota at the test day last year was 1.2 seconds, now it's 2.2 seconds. But the fuel consumption situation is most likely reversed compared to last year... okay, yeah, it's probably closer than most of us (except for Trussers perhaps) think.

[nkoske]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Their excessive spending is what is putting this championship at risk, they are bringing a gun to a knife-fight and it's completely unnecessary. But they would probably rather kill off the championship with their insane spending than lose one Le Mans..

Really. Toyota is one of the largest auto manufacturers in the world. If they decide to bring the knife to the gun-fight it's on them.

We should be cheering Audi's commitment to Le Mans.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by nkoske

Really. Toyota is one of the largest auto manufacturers in the world. If they decide to bring the knife to the gun-fight it's on them.

We should be cheering Audi's commitment to Le Mans.

TMG is not Toyota as such, it is high time that people understand that. They can only work with the budget they are being given...and it is apparently small.

Please stop like making it sound like Audi is there to do us a favor. They do it because the ROI is there for them, no other reason.

[Aysedasi]

I think we can say without a shred of doubt that Audi have outspent Toyota by a massive margin.......

[Tim240z]

And this is why I would favor a budget cap.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I think we can say without a shred of doubt that Audi have outspent Toyota by a massive margin.......

And for no reason as well. Everybody knew Toyota is working on a small budget, there was no danger of them doing something crazy.

But instead of taking this as a win for everyone and spending less as well, Audi is single-handingly driving up the costs in LMP1. That does not just put us in danger of losing Toyota, it also makes it less likely that other manufacturers join because they see the amount of money needed to compete.

Audi is hurting everyone with their insane spending and yes, I would favor some sort of cap as well. Some people can't be trusted with common sense apparently.

[Aysedasi]

You're assuming of course that Audi will be back next year........

[FstrthnU]

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/n...-car-revealed/

The poor LFA-GTE, almost say daylight in the WEC

[Acid09]

I know bean counters are all the same but Toyota must have some of the worst in the industry.

Never seen a big car maker to be that hesitant about their racing. That the TS030 is even on the grid is nothing short of a miracle.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Acid09

I know bean counters are all the same but Toyota must have some of the worst in the industry.

Never seen a big car maker to be that hesitant about their racing. That the TS030 is even on the grid is nothing short of a miracle.

They're hesitant for good reason, the last time they went nuts with their motorsport spending... it didn't give them any results worth noting.

[Acid09]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

They're hesitant for good reason, the last time they went nuts with their motorsport spending... it didn't give them any results worth noting.

I know that but one has to figure that there needs to be some middle room between spending money like idiots and spending so little that it actually holds the programme back.

Toyota hasn't found that balance yet.

[Maelochs]

I can only pretend to know anything about the budgets and plans Toyota has laid out for the next five years, and which part of that involves different forms of motorsport.

However … If Toyota is planning to build a 2014 car (and probably campaign it (probably in updated form) for a few seasons, than what would be the point of getting into a spending war with Audi right now?

Audi has a car it has been fine-tuning for a while, and is racing to rules it has basically bought. Next year, there will be more competition, there will be more companies lobbying for fair rules for petrol cars, and everyone will have a brand-new chassis.

As for Toyota being the biggest auto maker in the world … it is also one of the biggest manufacturers of affordable cars, where the profit margin is lowest. Audi on the other hand sells cars in a range where a higher price is a positive, not a negative.

Audi sells (at least some) car where exclusivity is more important than price—customers pay more knowing that only the select few can afford the car. Toyota sells a lot of cars to people who would by a Hyundai instead if the dealer offered a bigger cash rebate or a $500 gas-station debit card.

But whatever … Toyota nor Audi are racing to make racing good. They are racing to make money. Toyota did a good job last year with limited resources (and spent more than it planned.) It will probably do a good job this year. If Toyota wins or loses, it made a race out of what would have been a joke.

People are losing “patients” with Toyota? Yeah, how much better if they would take their tiny budget and leave, eh?

On the other hand, if Toyota can get decent results again this year, it is more likely to be there the year after … and how awesome will 2014 be if there are half-a-dozen different cars with a legitimate shot at winning every race?

I am not a “glass-half-full” kind of guy, but I am not a “pour it out if it isn’t full” person either. Toyota flat-out saved WEC last year, and is the only team this year giving Audi even a slight challenge. I‘ll take it.

[deggis]

Two new vids, explaining the hybrid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM26Aet0MKo

Nice (10 min) promo video with TS010 and TS020:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YFilIVJKgM

[Aysedasi]

I'm with Maelochs - 100%. Great post.

[MihokS5]

Originally Posted by Acid09

Spot on. I'm sad people look down on Toyota, their anger should be directed at Audi.

Their excessive spending is what is putting this championship at risk, they are bringing a gun to a knife-fight and it's completely unnecessary. But they would probably rather kill off the championship with their insane spending than lose one Le Mans..

Acid09 PLEASE get over yourself and your ridiculous, excessive Audi hating.

No matter what manufacturer is racing against Audi, you will be sure to jump on that thread and rant about how terrible Audi is.

If Porsche starts winning next year and the following years, will all of you be complaining about their budget too???