Peugeot 2010-2011 (Temporarily Closed)

[knighty]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

On a more serious note, if the Pug engine is a 2.0T, could it be a V6, that could be stress mounted and slightly shorter, or could the issues that WM had with the PRV engines disuade Peugeot into sticking with an inline four?

I think you have a good point there, the I4 roure has been fraught with problems ever since it arrived in the LMP675 days, if I was doing a clean sheet gasoline turbo design I would go down the V6 or V8 route for sure, as the internal loads will be so much more spread out and generally lower in magnitude to those of an I4......even back in the eighties, the V6's were dominant in the end, especially in ground effect cars as they hat two tail pipes with which to blow into the diffuser tunnels and speed up the air = more down force, sure in its day the BMW I4 was a potent motor, but in the end the V6's just took over......for the back of an LMP car mated to the front of an I4 is one huge miss-match, I think only recently have Dyson realised how much extra scaffolding is required to achieve an amount of rigidity that wont harm the I4 engine.

[chernaudi]

Audi Sport engine czar Ullrich Baretzky on the future of LMP engines and KERS. Doesn't say what will be in the Audi R18, but provides hints on what may be on the way in the future, and hints that stress mounted four cylinders engines are possible: http://gordonkirby.com/categories/co..._is_no257.html

Seems to state why Peugeot may run a four cylinder in the 90x--stress mounting is possible with an I4 (though Baretzky doesn't say how or why it's possible) and KERS.

[gwyllion]

I am with knighty on this. A turbo charged 2.0 V6 makes more sense because it has a lower center of gravity and less internal vibrations.

[joeb]

As chernaudi mentioned above, Dr. Ullrich seems to like an inline 4. He says it is less complicated for packaging with energy recovery technologies.

[TRuss]

Inline engines, especially short ones usually produce less vibration than a v-configuration. V6s are usually among the worst because they are very unbalanced. V8s however are far more balanced.

And I've been wondering why everybody refers to the next gen Puegeot as the 90x. If the current one is the 908 doesn't that only leave the 909? Why not call it the 9xx if we are unsure?

[gwyllion]

Peugeot only has the right on 3 digits name of the form x0x.

[Aysedasi]

Hence the Porsche 911 - instead of the desired Porsche 901......

[Gingers4Justice]

Will anyone else be throwing a house party if both Audi and Peugeot build petrol-hybrids?

The Le Mans is rid of these truck-powered monstrosities will be a very happy one.

But whatever happens, it has to be road relevant, and looking at this thread and the noises coming from Peugeot themselves there's about a 50/50 chance of it being petrol I'd say.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Hence the Porsche 911 - instead of the desired Porsche 901......

One thing I would like explaining though; how come Porsche could call their late 60s/earl 70s prototype racer the "908"? I'm sure by that point the 911 debate was done and dusted?

[porman]

I could be wrong, and I'm sure that I will be corrected if so but I believe it only had to do with road cars.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by TRuss

Inline engines, especially short ones usually produce less vibration than a v-configuration. V6s are usually among the worst because they are very unbalanced. V8s however are far more balanced.

And I've been wondering why everybody refers to the next gen Puegeot as the 90x. If the current one is the 908 doesn't that only leave the 909? Why not call it the 9xx if we are unsure?

Originally Posted by gwyllion

Peugeot only has the right on 3 digits name of the form x0x.

They do also have the rights for x00x. So the new car could also be called 900X .
But Peugeot Sport themselves has mentioned the name 90X.

[TF110]

In Roman Numerals isn't X = 10? which in my mind would be the next logical step, instead of 909, it would be an even number, but 910 would be too close to Porsche? I would figure that would be the name, but I guess 90X would be good since X means ten anyway.

[WMUCarGuy]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

One thing I would like explaining though; how come Porsche could call their late 60s/earl 70s prototype racer the "908"? I'm sure by that point the 911 debate was done and dusted?

Porsche also had 904, 906, 907, and 909 racers, so that rule must apply to road cars only.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by TF110

In Roman Numerals isn't X = 10? which in my mind would be the next logical step, instead of 909, it would be an even number, but 910 would be too close to Porsche? I would figure that would be the name, but I guess 90X would be good since X means ten anyway.

No because the x0x and x00x are trademark Peugeot numbers, so starting with a 910, would be very confusing, and destroying the naming history.

Originally Posted by WMUCarGuy

Porsche also had 904, 906, 907, and 909 racers, so that rule must apply to road cars only.

Just did a quick search. The rule is apparently only for France. So anyone can build and sell a x0x car, as long as it's a number Peugeot haven't produced, and that you wont sell it in France (ei. like the Porshe racecars).

[Aysedasi]

Ah, thanks for that!

[porman]

Originally Posted by WMUCarGuy

Porsche also had 904, 906, 907, and 909 racers, so that rule must apply to road cars only.

Don't forget the 908!

[CTD]

Originally Posted by porman

Don't forget the 908!

Ginger mentioned that one earlier.

[porman]

Originally Posted by CTD

Ginger mentioned that one earlier.

It might have been best to have checked before the smart a$$ in me came out.

[Gingers4Justice]

Originally Posted by CTD

Just did a quick search. The rule is apparently only for France. So anyone can build and sell a x0x car, as long as it's a number Peugeot haven't produced, and that you wont sell it in France (ei. like the Porshe racecars).

That one's always stumped me, thanks very much CTD

[Tom908V12]

Originally Posted by knighty

personally I find it quite believable......contrary to what Peugeot wants you to think, their LMP1 Diesel engine was fully designed and developed by an external powertrain design and development company based in Germany, this particular company does ALOT of road car work for Peugeot and all the germanic OEM's, this is an organisation that employs 1500 people and has 60 dyno cells.....I know this because I previously worked for the company in question.......its a leaky place and I bet the rumours originate from there.......I bet its a 2.0 Turbo, as small highly turbocharged engines is the way all OEM's are now going, particularly pugeot.

I thought the V12 HDI was made by Mécachrome ???

[Tom908V12]

Originally Posted by cmk

Have to figure that the car will run sometime in September or October. ORECA isn't helping to run one of the works Peugeot cars in the US and China so Peugeot Sport's own mechanics and race engineers can go sit on a beach...

Someone on another forum wrote that a cousin of him having a Peugeot-Sport mechanic as friend was told the 90X already had a "shakedown" in september and the the engine is definitly a diesel...

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Tom908V12

I thought the V12 HDI was made by Mécachrome ???

Apparently not (what knighty said) but isn't Mecachrome involved with Renault?

[Lola T70]

Originally Posted by deggis

Apparently not (what knighty said) but isn't Mecachrome involved with Renault?

Mechachrome I am sure is owned now by Oreca.

They did Seat WTCC engines a few years ago and I think do Renault Megane series engines.

[hcl123]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Will anyone else be throwing a house party if both Audi and Peugeot build petrol-hybrids?

The Le Mans is rid of these truck-powered monstrosities will be a very happy one.

But whatever happens, it has to be road relevant, and looking at this thread and the noises coming from Peugeot themselves there's about a 50/50 chance of it being petrol I'd say.

It will be a regression of evolution clearly... though ACO has made everything possible for this to happen, by rule manipulation...

OTOH... it may only be rumors because who will be on diesel will have a large performance advantage... both possibilities are on the table, if Audi convinces Peugeot that it will change or vise versa, the one that changes will be in disadvantage, leaving the other as an undisputed leader...

But apart from that, diesel or petrol are both on the table for 2011 for Audi and Peugeot... i can easily suspect...

What will cost more in the Diesel route is clearly the development of engines, putting and uncertain check on the tech... because to compete with 15% less tank and maintain a far superior performance has it has been since 2006, new techs like HCCI or "supercritical fuel injection" by exhaust heat recuperation and more powerful fuel pumps must be added to the wish list.

In a down turn economy, cheap and old.. no!.. very "old"- quite obsolete matter of fact with more than 100 years of research in motorsport [not that diesel is not obsolete also, but its much better(future is electric)] ... a gasoline engine would be much much less expensive to pursuit ( clearly worst perf but much cheaper).

[hcl123]

As to the spectacle in it self, what is disturbing to me, with so much meddling rules protecting interests foreign to motorsport itself, is that nowadays most of the top supercars on the roads today will have performance superior to the prototypes
http://www.gizmag.com/bugatti-veyron-super-sport/16311/
http://www.gizmag.com/go/3786/
http://www.gizmag.com/go/8072/

but the future is electric... 3.4s to the 100Kmh/60mph, with equivalent to 35cents to the gallon of electricity! http://www.gizmag.com/jaguar-c-x75-c...upercar/16518/ and up to 900km (560 miles) on a single charge of electricity and kerosene/gas/petrol/diesel for the micro turbines!... 900km (560 miles) !! ... NOT an hybrid, no chemical fuel will provide traction.. electric as reached the adult age!

... and with TV techs, noise and emotion on the track will be more and more dull to say the least... everybody will enjoy much better to go IN THE CAR with their favorite pilots or cars for sure... it will be much more exiting... the all 24H if one wishes... portable TV may save the day... or track presence will lose much of its interest and glitter (why pay to see only a very small part of the track... when you could pay to actually be INSIDE the show itself ?? )