[Team] Aston Martin Racing in 2023. One of the cars still has Alonso.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

so forgive me for asking as i have not been actively following the back and forth between RB Powertrains and Honda...

but i had thought RBPT were entering into a partnership with Ford and the Honda badge would be gone by 2026.

would this mean Honda are now staying in F1 post 2026 and will be exclusive to AM? and a completely separate PU to the one RBPT and Ford will be developing for 2026 onwards?

I thought once RB Powertrains was up and running, Honda would be leaving F1. However clearly not, if they are supplying AM in 2026.

[Richard C]

My understanding is...

* Back in Feb six suppliers signed up in support of the 2026 power unit regulation. Those were Alpine, Audi, Ferrari, Honda, Mercedes, and RBPT/Ford (note that RBPT and Honda are two separate entries)
* RBPT is in a partnership with Honda for the current regulations, but not the 2026 regulations. They are parting ways amicably.
* This is a big topic, but in general, RBPT does not "own" the IP for the current Honda power unit. So generally the 2026 RBPT power unit is NOT some type of 2026 Honda power unit. But everyone copies ideas off each other, and RBPT has been staffed by pulling from various other suppliers so there is likely DNA from multiple sources in the 2026 RBPT power unit.
* The big question was who (if anyone) would partner with Honda. I don't think Honda has said for sure they will be back or not. It probably depended upon finding someone to partner with. There is no reason for Honda to announce they are "back" for sure until they have a partner.
* While nothing is official, I find the AM partnership interesting given it is likely to be a rebadge. If only one team uses Honda and that is AM and AM badges it as "Aston Martin". Then what level of marketing can Honda get out of this? Maybe AM is sending $$$ to Honda for this. Or maybe Honda is looking to line up someone in addition to AM in which the power unit can be labeled as a "Honda" (Williams or McLaren?).
* From AM perspective, this is good as they have a power unit supplier that is focused on them (just like Honda is today with Red Bull.) Given that Honda has figured out the current engine regulations and the next are supposed to be less complex, I would think any team that is not already self suppling their own power units would love to have the full focus of Honda.
* As to why RBPT for Red Bull and not going back to Honda? Red Bull is tired of being dependent upon third party power unit suppliers and having periods of instability of supply (i.e. Renault). So they want to play in the same space as Ferrari, Mercedes, Renault in which they control their own destiny with respect to power units

Richard

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by veeten

It stands to reason that McLaren would've done this, but Aston Martin deciding to go this route at this stage, says plenty about their belief in Honda, and the scepticisms in Mercedes. This season, they can easily pass and surpass the main team, but still have significant problems with the Honda-powered Red Bulls.

And since they will be partnering with Ford in '26, why not make a deal with the one that gave them so much.

I doubt Honda would be willing to go back down that path. Although the team with Alonso making that deal ain't great either but I would guess he would be gone from the team by 2026. Neither were effusive with praise on the previous Honda unit

[P38 in workshop]

I'm sure that a little while ago I read that Geely had increased their stake in Aston-Martin.Something that may appear to have little relevance in this context were it not for the fact that Geely are themselves the largest shareholder in Daimler-Benz.So why would they make this rumoured move?

[crmalcolm]

Now official - https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...pXEXdC5QQ.html

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

I'm sure that a little while ago I read that Geely had increased their stake in Aston-Martin.Something that may appear to have little relevance in this context were it not for the fact that Geely are themselves the largest shareholder in Daimler-Benz.So why would they make this rumoured move?

Geely may be significant shareholders in Aston Martin, but they don’t own any of Racing Point, which remains the actual F1 team.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Geely may be significant shareholders in Aston Martin, but they don’t own any of Racing Point, which remains the actual F1 team.

Jordan>Midland>Spyker>Force India>Racing Point Force India>Racing Point>Aston Martin

There is nothing clever about referring to the team as Racing Point, if you are not going to include all previous iterations of the team name.

The teams is entered as 'Aston Martin Aramco Cognizant F1 Team'
The team is referred to by (almost) everyone as 'Aston Martin'
The team has its registered office at 'Aston Martin Formula One Team, Silverstone'
The team is owned by 'Amr Performance Group Limited'

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Jordan>Midland>Spyker>Force India>Racing Point Force India>Racing Point>Aston Martin

There is nothing clever about referring to the team as Racing Point, if you are not going to include all previous iterations of the team name.

The teams is entered as 'Aston Martin Aramco Cognizant F1 Team'
The team is referred to by (almost) everyone as 'Aston Martin'
The team has its registered office at 'Aston Martin Formula One Team, Silverstone'
The team is owned by 'Amr Performance Group Limited'

You’ve been reading press releases for breakfast again.

The ‘point’ was that the team is not owned by Aston Martin. Much the same as Sauber is known as Alfa Romeo right now, even though it’s actually a sponsorship arrangement.

[S griffin]

I haven't seen that many press releases. The fact is the team is Aston Martin, it's got backing from the manufacturer and they own a share in the car company. Yes Sauber have a partnership with Alfa, but the team is called Alfa Romeo

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I haven't seen that many press releases. The fact is the team is Aston Martin, it's got backing from the manufacturer and they own a share in the car company. Yes Sauber have a partnership with Alfa, but the team is called Alfa Romeo

There’s very little fact there! The team owns no share in the car company. Or vice versa.

[billy bleach]

Batching aside surely the big question is where GP2 engine Alonso fits in to all of this?

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Batching aside surely the big question is where GP2 engine Alonso fits in to all of this?

Officially "no problem" being said, although there's plenty of time to go. I guess they assume he'll have gone or be World Champion again!

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by peebee2

There’s very little fact there! The team owns no share in the car company. Or vice versa.

Ah yes, the I'm so much smarter and connected comments without merit. The same group owns both, yes the collection of money not Larry's but as with any successful businessman someone else's money they let him use. A point of order the team name for F1 has no Racing Point in it so in reference to the F1 team maybe use that name. It's not Aston Martin Racing Pointe as you want to point out about Alfa Romeo Sauber

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Officially "no problem" being said, although there's plenty of time to go. I guess they assume he'll have gone or be World Champion again!

Time must be a healer - Didnt Honda veto use of their motors at Indy?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Now official - https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...pXEXdC5QQ.html

As I am a Honda fan, it's good to see them back (did they really leave? ) But I may struggle to cheer for Lance during race. Hopefully the other driver is someone I can get behind!

The thing I find most interesting about the press release is that Honda is NOT looking for a second team in addition to AM (or Jordon or whatever we are supposed to call the team). I would think it would be beneficial for them to have more than a single team from a data gathering perspective. My guess is Stroll Sr. is looking for an exclusive arrangement and I assume he has pushed enough money towards Honda to make that happen.

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

Time must be a healer - Didnt Honda veto use of their motors at Indy?

When was this?

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Ah yes, the I'm so much smarter and connected comments without merit. The same group owns both

Wow! The same group emphatically does not own both. And, even if they did, that wouldn’t make it the same company.

[bjohnsonsmith]

I thought AMR GP Limited own and operate the Aston Martin F1 Team.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

When was this?

If I remember correctly Alonso was inline for an Indy 500 seat at Andretti (using Honda), but Honda is reported to have said "no". He ended up running back at McLaren in a Chevy. This was 2020.

I expect that enough time has passed, as well as Honda having proven themselves a winner in F1 might be why Honda has said they would be OK with working with Alonso again.

Richard

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Wow! The same group emphatically does not own both. And, even if they did, that wouldn’t make it the same company.

It's the same folks money, sorry dude but it is, it is widely reported the investors and NOT NOT NOT Stroll money. You can troll all you want but some people actually read news and LEGAL documentation not press releases

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I thought AMR GP Limited own and operate the Aston Martin F1 Team.

That's who is listed and doesn't say Racing Pointe in it anywhere, and other than a few small investors it's the same group of folks giving Lawrence money to play with

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

I'm sure that a little while ago I read that Geely had increased their stake in Aston-Martin.Something that may appear to have little relevance in this context were it not for the fact that Geely are themselves the largest shareholder in Daimler-Benz.So why would they make this rumoured move?

and i believe Geely also have a controlling interest in Lotus as well...could we see that name back in F1?

but to your question, and as to their recent purchase of a large block of AM car company shares. this would not have been an overnight thing.

assumption on my part, but surely Geely's purchase has been in the works for some time now and through their basic due diligence, they would have looked at AM and any of it's related corporations and holdings (including the AM racing team which likewise had been working on on a move to Honda... presumably for some time as well) would have learned the engine change was in the works and still moved forward with their purchase of AM shares.

total speculation on my part, but its not inconceivable to think that Geely believed Daimler were better off reducing their engine supply obligations and/or better served by not supplying a team that is currently fairing better than the Daimler works team?

anyways, F1 is becoming (arguably has always been) a tangled playground of many corporate entities vying for and/or colluding to maximize market share in a rapidly changing auto industry.

6 engine manus now for 2026 onwards plus how many car companies now involved in F1 either through ownership, sponsorship, or fiduciary control coming from an investment or wealth fund which have their fingers in every auto company....this is now the real era of manufactures in F1 right?

and of course all further strikes at the heart of whether or not F1 can truly be a competitive and level sports platform?

way off topic though.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

If I remember correctly Alonso was inline for an Indy 500 seat at Andretti (using Honda), but Honda is reported to have said "no". He ended up running back at McLaren in a Chevy. This was 2020.

I expect that enough time has passed, as well as Honda having proven themselves a winner in F1 might be why Honda has said they would be OK with working with Alonso again.

Richard

Alonso made his Indianapolis 500 debut in 2017 with McLaren-Honda-Andretti Autosport, leading 27 laps before the engine blew. Come 2020, referring to the Honda PU as a “GP2 engine”, wouldn't have helped.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

That's who is listed and doesn't say Racing Pointe in it anywhere, and other than a few small investors it's the same group of folks giving Lawrence money to play with

This is the listing from Companies House.


https://find-and-update.company-info...mpany/11496673

[crmalcolm]

So, if I'm understanding the last few posts:

There is a team in F1 that is registered, and known by the name of, Aston Martin.
That team is financed (in part) by a consortium headed by Lawrence Stroll.

There is also a car manufacturer that is registered, and known by the name of, Aston Martin. That manufacturer is financed (in part) by a consortium headed by Lawrence Stroll.

Both companies are linked by financial and corporate connections, and share certain technology and resources.

Geely is (IIRC) the third biggest shareholder in the manufacturer. Their involvement in the manufacturer gives them a link to the F1 team.

(And someone wants to keep referring to the F1 team as Jordan/Midland/Spyker/Force India/Racing Point)