Parity Review Has Been Called

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Aero Update:

Looking at the latest images, this is what I gather they have done:

Camaro
- Abandoned bootlid spoiler, moved rear wing 50mm rearwards and possibly 50mm upwards instead (using a new design of the wing mounts that has now been manufactured for all the Camaros). Increase of wing span by 100mm, identical to Mustang.
- Reprofiled front splitter.

Mustang
- After the second round of wind tunnel tests, the additional drag needed to match the Camaro has been moved to the front of the car by removing the outboard fill panel on the front bumper ahead of the front wheel arches. Therefore the gurney flaps to add drag on the rear wing endplates have been discarded.
- The bootlid spoiler uses the more cambered Newcastle section on the central bootlid, but the original less cambered sections on the rear quarter panels, the outer sections are also not as wide (this was the case in the original package after the first part of wind tunnel testing, I didn't realise this was just a mix-and-match of the different parts).

Hopefully this is still correct and matching, and moving away from what they originally got to match perfectly in the wind tunnel (e.g., Camaro with wing in original position but with bootlid spoiler & Mustang with aluminium gurney flaps on rear wing) doesn't cause any problems!

All is quiet on the engine parity front though.

[GTRMagic]

Ford STILL testing engine specs for ‘24

It’s not like there’s a race meeting soon, or that some teams are eating their first test day without knowing what the final package will be

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

All is quiet on the engine parity front though.

Ford still got their hands in their pants.

Nek minit they will not go any good and blame Supercars.

[Ares]

I don't think the engine thing is as big as they want to make out. We saw a number of drag races last season where engine looked very even. The Fords even pulling a gap at times. The Payne car and others were pulling some good top speed at Bathurst. Even a couple of clicks faster down the shoot than some of the top Chevs at times. Didn't Ford win the last four racing in the season? Must have had enough engine to do that. Maybe the two are not100% the same, they can't be that far away.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Ares

I don't think the engine thing is as big as they want to make out. We saw a number of drag races last season where engine looked very even. The Fords even pulling a gap at times. The Payne car and others were pulling some good top speed at Bathurst. Even a couple of clicks faster down the shoot than some of the top Chevs at times. Didn't Ford win the last four racing in the season? Must have had enough engine to do that. Maybe the two are not100% the same, they can't be that far away.

I found this today.

https://speedcafe.com/the-new-superc...or-in-testing/

[Ares]

Originally Posted by bluesport

I found this today.

https://speedcafe.com/the-new-superc...or-in-testing/

The left hand photo looks like they have dropped a pound out of the left front tyre?

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Ares

The left hand photo looks like they have dropped a pound out of the left front tyre?

It could be a bit loaded up going into a corner.

[bluesport]

Has DJR now made the Ford engines too good???

https://speedcafe.com/fords-big-supercars-engine-omen/

[GTRMagic]

Erebus Buys Laser Scanner

These are common in NASCAR teams… most Cup car squads have one now.
Same one the NASCAR scrutineers use.

Question is… why doesn’t V8Supercar have one?
To absolutely measure every surface of the chassis and shoe compliance or variance to homologation…

Imagine misaligning panels to make a car slower in a straight line for example… the laser machine should pick something like that up..

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Question is… why doesn’t V8Supercar have one?
To absolutely measure every surface of the chassis and shoe compliance or variance to homologation…

Who says Supercars doesn't have one (or several)?

Supercars has been using lasers to check that cars comply for 20 odd years, may well have either the same tool as Erebus or something very like it.

[v8supes]

They can have all the fancy tech that they want, somebody still has to drive it....

[bluesport]

Testing will be ongoing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbbs...nnel=Supercars

[Ares]

Thank you, Mr bluesport for keeping us all up to date with the latest news hot off the press. Looks like stuff that should have been being done before Race 1 2023. Better late than never. A step up for the series all the same. Tim looks to be enjoying his new role also.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Ares

Looks like stuff that should have been being done before Race 1 2023. Better late than never. A step up for the series all the same. Tim looks to be enjoying his new role also.

Some of it was being done before Race 1 in 2023 of course. With some of the other steps now being taken, the timing wasn't right - torque sensors were in short supply back then, not enough of the right spec available; there was no transient dyno in Oz that met Supercars' needs (the one that exists in the country has since been upgraded) and of course wind tunnel testing was always viewed as too expensive, particularly given the history of close competition from the existing testing regime.

Yes, it's good to see Tim relishing his new role and also that more can now be done when it comes to testing parity.

[bluesport]

Parity shift cuts are back.

https://speedcafe.com/supercars-brin...ty-shift-cuts/

[Ares]

Maybe the wind tunnel testing and dyno work could have been done offshore in 2022. Factored into the Gen3 build and parity program from when it was still just on paper.
I know it was deemed too expensive but then it wasn't. Supercars was found out in 2019 and then again in 2023. They better be in front of the ball next time. Being behind the ball time and time again costs more than just their all important bottom line.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Parity shift cuts are back.

https://speedcafe.com/supercars-brin...ty-shift-cuts/

So much for the 4 valve being too good and having to be dialled back! Seriously, who actually believes this stuff? Shift cuts sound like the last act of desperation to claw back the whole idea of parity to me when all else has failed. I wonder if SC has finally lost the plot and have no idea of what to do next. Clearly the whole idea of parity has to be questioned when the aero and the motor revisions have failed and we have to revert to early 2023 band aids of shift cuts.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Casper

So much for the 4 valve being too good and having to be dialled back!

Shift cuts may be used to slow the mustang down.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Shift cuts may be used to slow the mustang down.

According to the linked article, it is believed that longer shift cuts will be used on the Chev, however, this article from V8 Sleuth quotes Tim Edwards, saying that shift cuts won't be used to paritise engine performance this weekend - appears that the Speedcafe article may have been wrong.

Sounds like the work done on the Ford engines is a move in the right direction if that's the case.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Tourer

According to the linked article, it is believed that longer shift cuts will be used on the Chev, however, this article from V8 Sleuth quotes Tim Edwards, saying that shift cuts won't be used to paritise engine performance this weekend - appears that the Speedcafe article may have been wrong.

Sounds like the work done on the Ford engines is a move in the right direction if that's the case.

In a series such as this where there is little or no chance of gaining a HP advantage through motor development and the motors are built to a strict recipe to prevent HP development anyway why can't dyno curves be published for each motor type? I would be interested in the area under the curve between each type but I doubt we will see that because I think it would be embarrassing for those who have said the motors have been closely matched. Shift cuts are the answers for those desperate to find parity.

[Tourer]

Supercars Ops Manual updated - according to this article it now uses the same wording as the Teams' Contracts on Parity.

Good that it goes out of its way to differentiate between technical and sporting parity.

Originally Posted by Casper

In a series such as this where there is little or no chance of gaining a HP advantage through motor development and the motors are built to a strict recipe to prevent HP development anyway why can't dyno curves be published for each motor type? I would be interested in the area under the curve between each type but I doubt we will see that because I think it would be embarrassing for those who have said the motors have been closely matched. Shift cuts are the answers for those desperate to find parity.

Well of course the engines haven't been run on the transient dyno yet - once that's done I guess anything is possible but I do feel it's unlikely that dyno curves would come out publicly - to the teams for sure but there has always been a view that many tech details are for the teams only.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Casper

In a series such as this where there is little or no chance of gaining a HP advantage through motor development and the motors are built to a strict recipe to prevent HP development anyway why can't dyno curves be published for each motor type? I would be interested in the area under the curve between each type but I doubt we will see that because I think it would be embarrassing for those who have said the motors have been closely matched. Shift cuts are the answers for those desperate to find parity.

Originally Posted by Tourer

Well of course the engines haven't been run on the transient dyno yet - once that's done I guess anything is possible but I do feel it's unlikely that dyno curves would come out publicly - to the teams for sure but there has always been a view that many tech details are for the teams only.

Well naturally, shortly after I posted this, Larko put up power & torque curves for both engines on his info board - said he'd done it before so I must have missed that.

Short version is that there's very little difference in the engine curves and according to Tim Edwards, the torque sensor work done so far is showing only v-e-r-y small differences. Once they've done some more of that & of course the transient dyno runs, we should be at a point of tech parity and then we'll know that any difference in performance on track is down to team/driver and how good a job they're doing at that track on that day - will be good.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Short version is that there's very little difference in the engine curves and according to Tim Edwards, the torque sensor work done so far is showing only v-e-r-y small differences. Once they've done some more of that & of course the transient dyno runs, we should be at a point of tech parity and then we'll know that any difference in performance on track is down to team/driver and how good a job they're doing at that track on that day - will be good.

You can't escape the quality of the engineering team who built the car.

This is the part you can't illustrate with points you can measure.

888 has always built cars that other people could go fast in and even beat 888.

DJR never has, and it got a lot worse during the Penske era.

I think Supercars has actually stepped in to try to solve issues like the pitch sensitivity but this is showing up the depth of talent at DJR not being the same as 888.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Mixer

You can't escape the quality of the engineering team who built the car.

This is the part you can't illustrate with points you can measure.

888 has always built cars that other people could go fast in and even beat 888.

DJR never has, and it got a lot worse during the Penske era.

I think Supercars has actually stepped in to try to solve issues like the pitch sensitivity but this is showing up the depth of talent at DJR not being the same as 888.

You definitely aren't a motor sport fan, not in the true sense of the word but carry on. When the debate did not suit your lopsided views you had no contribution at all. I'm out of here so don't bother to reply, being a motor sport fan does not seem to be considered a good thing by some here including you.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Casper

You definitely aren't a motor sport fan, not in the true sense of the word but carry on. When the debate did not suit your lopsided views you had no contribution at all. I'm out of here so don't bother to reply, being a motor sport fan does not seem to be considered a good thing by some here including you.

Nice rebuttal of facts there. You deserve a round of applause.

Another point which I think is very relevant.

Jeremy Moore rejoined 888 just in time to develop the Camaro after a stint in Germany where he was responsible for developing the 911 GT3.