Future Grands Prix?

[chunterer]

Love whar Bernie is supposed to have said about the old Mexico circuit just needing resurfacing! !

Um, think it'll need a bit more than a bit of tarmac!!!!

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

leave it to the very funny people at sniff petrol to help me see the error of my ways.

so i changed my mind and for what

great race here with wheel to wheel battles and passes all over the place. the challenge didnt seem diminished in any way making the notion of modernizing tracks a difficult subject for me to get my head around!

does the removing of gravel in favour of ample run off areas, thus removing the risk of failure, increase a driver's willingness to take chances or was this just a function of incredibly well placed DRS zones?

admittedly, when done right, i dont hate DRS as much as i used to.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

I have to admit, whilst Parabolica is easier in the dry, it's harder in the wet. Can Bernie put the sprinklers in for next season?

[chillibowl]

lol

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Can Bernie put the sprinklers in for next season?

I would like to wish that! While we're at it, tell Bernie to adapt the Green-White-Checker too!

[NaBUru38]

If F1 would drop China, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi and Russia, that would be great.

France should be back right now. I'd add Argentina, but their government is too corrupt.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

If F1 would drop China, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi and Russia, that would be great.

France should be back right now. I'd add Argentina, but their government is too corrupt.

Too corrupt for F1? Say it isn't so...!

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Argentina can't be too corrupt for F1 is the circus is already visiting Bahrain...

[NaBUru38]

Well, yes, but I wish F1 didn't visit corrupt countries.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Well, yes, but I wish F1 didn't visit corrupt countries.

You're in a minority there!



...oh wait, you're not...

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Well, yes, but I wish F1 didn't visit corrupt countries.

That would rule out Italy, they are not exactly squeeky clean.

[NaBUru38]

Ok, leave it at democratic countries.

[Tucky]

Send F1 to North Korea and Kim Jong Un would make sure every single seat was filled! (Of course he'd have to drive and win the race, but we can work that out later)

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Tucky

Send F1 to North Korea and Kim Jong Un would make sure every single seat was filled! (Of course he'd have to drive and win the race, but we can work that out later)

He could use water cannon to coax them in to the stands and we'd have a wet race, to boot.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Tucky

Send F1 to North Korea and Kim Jong Un would make sure every single seat was filled! (Of course he'd have to drive and win the race, but we can work that out later)

Toto and Niki ...

[Purist]

Now, explain to me how this Turn 2/3 complex at the end of the front stretch at Sochi is a good idea on starts/restarts with anything resembling a bunched field. BTW, the track gets at least two meters narrower for that first, tighter corner (Turn 2).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTlWfjXOM0A

As you can see, they have the space, and pavement, to open up Turn 2, and effectively, get rid of that extra kink back to the left (Turn 3) on the exit. Even if that made Turn 2 something like 80-90-mph, it would still be more than enough of a braking zone at the end of a 200-205-mph straight (210-215-mph with DRS and a slipstream).

Also, having a faster Turn 2 would allow the cars to stay closer together for Turn 4, and therefore, make moves into Turn 5 more possible.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Purist

Now, explain to me how this Turn 2/3 complex at the end of the front stretch at Sochi is a good idea on starts/restarts with anything resembling a bunched field. BTW, the track gets at least two meters narrower for that first, tighter corner (Turn 2).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTlWfjXOM0A

As you can see, they have the space, and pavement, to open up Turn 2, and effectively, get rid of that extra kink back to the left (Turn 3) on the exit. Even if that made Turn 2 something like 80-90-mph, it would still be more than enough of a braking zone at the end of a 200-205-mph straight (210-215-mph with DRS and a slipstream).

Also, having a faster Turn 2 would allow the cars to stay closer together for Turn 4, and therefore, make moves into Turn 5 more possible.

I agree with you!

Any time you have an S-bend or curves going in opposite directions the overtaking opportunities are reduced to zero or very limited depending on the distance between the reverse curves. Probably why there is so much overtaking on ovals! Had not thought of it in quite those terms before.

[TheMightyM]

Sochi looks completely boring. Could they have squeezed in any more 90 degree corners?

[Purist]

TMM, this is, perhaps, one of the funniest things about F1 venues. Since that spate of American street circuits, ending with Phoenix in 1991, we've actually had a number of comparatively good non-permanent circuits. Admittedly, Caesar's Palace (1981-82), Long Beach (1982, 1983), Detroit (1982, 1983-88), Dallas (1984), and Phoenix (1989-90, 1991) aren't the highest bars to clear. Even so, I have to say that Melbourne, Valencia, Singapore, and to a lesser extent, Sochi, offer more interesting layouts, which are also spacious enough to allow real potential for racing.

At least we know, if this precise layout ends up being a bit too slow, there is room to adjust several of the corners at Sochi to make things better. With the slower cars this year, I think they may have to look at tweaking Singapore to get the race distance in under the time limit.

Here's a few more links relating to the Sochi Circuit.

Track Map:
https://twitter.com/SochiAutodrom/st...25795693010944

Photos, including that Turn 2/3 complex:
http://www.automobilsport.com/formul...---126628.html

The track map linked to above shows more clearly the tightness of Turn 2 as it actually exists. The first photo in the linked article shows the corner as it appears on the ground. It also serves to emphasize the narrowing of the track in that short segment.

As to esse bends, Wnut, it depends. The Castrol Esse at the Nurburgring, before they built the Mercedes Arena, was quite a good set of corners, and overtaking was very possible there.

What you do NOT want is a slow, closely-set sequence of turns, with very tight inner radii. I dare say that many of the hairpins and slower corners on Tilke's newer circuits are, in fact, too tight. The inner radii are such that the inside line is so tight that it bogs down an overtaking driver too much to actually pull off a move. On top of that, such corners practically encourage the overtaking driver to run the overtaken driver off of the road in order to make the pass stick. Having stupidly wide curbs, astroturf, and paved run-off on the outside of such turns only serves to aggravate this kind of behavior on the part of drivers.

And thinking about recent events at Spa and Beijing, if they put in those sausage curbs at Turns 2 and/or 3 in Sochi to prevent short-cutting, especially Turn 3, we're going to have a royal mess on the opening lap!

[JacobP]

In IndyCar, Sochi layout would be considered decent, with many "standard" features, since IndyCar races on street circuits a lot (more than ovals and road courses recently). Due to limited run off areas, and tight corners, IndyCars have safety cars on these all the time. I wonder how F1 will deal with this.

[Purist]

F1 street circuits have become a wholly different animal. In fact, if the Russian GP is judged "successful", Sochi may be made into an effectively permanent circuit.

Valencia was a similar deal to Sochi, with basically none of the circuit being on actual public roads. They had far more freedom in layout than would be the case with a "real" street circuit. And no true street circuit would have the allowances for run-offs seen at Sochi or Valencia.

F1 no longer has any true, 100% street circuits. At Monaco, Turn 10 (the Chicane) to Turn 18 (La Rascasse) is not public road. Turn 15 to Turn 18 is purpose-built since 2003 or 2004. That was also about the time they built the dedicated, elevated, permaent pit lane and garages.

At Singapore, Turn 5 to Turn 16, and Turn 19 to Turn 20 are public roads. The rest is purpose-built. This includes the pit complex, front straight, last few corners, and first few corners, which had to be hacked out of the jungle when they were built.

These F1 "street circuits" are required to be repaved every year.

There's just no realistic comparison, from what F1 runs on now, to the street circuits at Long Beach, Toronto, St. Petersburg, Huston, etc.

[wolfhound]

Any future GP's might be in danger as the deal for the circuit's sale appears to be falling through. There were other bidders who may still be interested.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns29016.html

[Purist]

So, we now have a track layout for the 2016 Baku event.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlin.../10/16459.html

[Alfaholic]

we have an acceleration section of almost 2.2 kilometres along the promenade which will see the cars running flat out at very high top speeds

I thought there was a track design restriction on the length of the straights imposed by the FIA hence the chicanes on the Mulsanne Straight at Le Mans.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Alfaholic

I thought there was a track design restriction on the length of the straights imposed by the FIA hence the chicanes on the Mulsanne Straight at Le Mans.

Kink?