[WEC] New rules. New manufacturers. The 2021 and beyond positivity thread!

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/w...r-era/8174958/

Bit of a weird take from Watkins here, imo. Surely it was always assumed that IMSA and the WEC would have different names for their top class. What's new?

Yeah agree, hard to see the issue. Sportscar fans are more than used to this sort of minutiae and for the casuals I think big brands racing for the win trumps any sort of naming issues.

I think there are far bigger concerns around BoP and race invitations than any sort of naming stuff.

There was a good soapbox from Marshall Pruett on his podcast around how IMSA had emailed him to say the cars will still be known as LMDh's despite running in the GTP class. I would guess the ACO might have seen their arse when GTP got announced by IMSA. But ultimately it's already pretty confusing, LMH, LMDh, Hypercar. What's another name to add to the list?

[GingerPixel]

Aston turning up in a hypercar would be a massively weird move. Not unwelcome in terms of grid diversity but their journey to the race (theoretically) would be a pretty bizzare one.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by GingerPixel

Aston turning up in a hypercar would be a massively weird move. Not unwelcome in terms of grid diversity but their journey to the race (theoretically) would be a pretty bizzare one.

like basically everything related to aston martin in last 2-3 years...
lawrence stroll's bizarre adventure

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Yeah agree, hard to see the issue. Sportscar fans are more than used to this sort of minutiae and for the casuals I think big brands racing for the win trumps any sort of naming issues.

I think there are far bigger concerns around BoP and race invitations than any sort of naming stuff.

There was a good soapbox from Marshall Pruett on his podcast around how IMSA had emailed him to say the cars will still be known as LMDh's despite running in the GTP class. I would guess the ACO might have seen their arse when GTP got announced by IMSA. But ultimately it's already pretty confusing, LMH, LMDh, Hypercar. What's another name to add to the list?

Without big bop changes related to power output, fuel tank size etc to make IMSA GTP slower than WEC LMDh... is logical to think that cars from IMSA GTP running at LM will be included in the WEC hypercar class

[GCCheddaris]

Traditionally IMSA GTP, GTX and GTO cars ran in their own classes up to the mid eighties. Admittedly that was before BoP was thought of.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by canaglia

Without big bop changes related to power output, fuel tank size etc to make IMSA GTP slower than WEC LMDh... is logical to think that cars from IMSA GTP running at LM will be included in the WEC hypercar class

Why would they need that, LMDh should be running with Hpercars, it's just a different way to build a car for the class. I believe the GTP and LMDh cars should be BOP'd together by ACO and IMSA review at Windshear and Sauber facility with track data

[Simmi]

Should work like GTE at Le Mans no? Common BoP surely the entire point of the convergence.

Not sure why it's even being discussed?

[kvenom]

Originally Posted by canaglia

like basically everything related to aston martin in last 2-3 years...
lawrence stroll's bizarre adventure

Have to wonder how long he keeps going with how mediocre Lance is. Aston doesn't make any money selling cars, they are spending a huge amount on F1 (facilities etc...) When he loses interest they are going to be royally screwed.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Should work like GTE at Le Mans no? Common BoP surely the entire point of the convergence.

Not sure why it's even being discussed?

Glad I wasn't the only one who thought that was the plan

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Should work like GTE at Le Mans no? Common BoP surely the entire point of the convergence.

Not sure why it's even being discussed?

it's not about a technical reg issue but more something related to sport regs.. just to make an example, probably lmdh will be made with 100L or even larger fuel tank to have close to 1 hour long stint like toyota and probably peugeot and ferrari as well, but IMSA could cut fuel tank size to GTP to keep the same 40-45min long stint as nowadays dpi/lmp2.
It's all about if IMSA will decide to give a more remarked identity to GTP rather than lmdh with a nostalgic name running in US. In that case wouldn't be so unlikely to see same cars running on different bop/settings to be in different classes.
But that's just an ipothetic scenario, at the end I think american teams running in IMSA GTP will be included in hypercar class at LM, using same WEC bop

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by kvenom

Have to wonder how long he keeps going with how mediocre Lance is. Aston doesn't make any money selling cars, they are spending a huge amount on F1 (facilities etc...) When he loses interest they are going to be royally screwed.

when he loses interest, he probably will sell AM to another consortium of enrepreneurs... as happened already a lot of times in AM lagonda history.
Or maybe it will become a premium AMG brand.

[broadrun96]

MP stirring things up again.

https://racer.com/2022/02/16/ligier-...ssis-supplier/

Ligier has a commission as GTP/LMDh supplier, might this be the mysterious Aston project, or maybe McLaren, or even the elusive Hyundai?? He's fishing even more with Bentley and Lamborghini thrown out there, can't believe either would be anything but a Multimatic product with new stickers

[canaglia]

ligier fiat panda gtp

[Simmi]

I saw this tweet from Laurent Mercier of Endurance-Info earlier. Seems to also be implying a Lambo/Ligier hook-up:
https://twitter.com/LaurentMercier2/...90471920369668

Regardless, I'm really pleased for Ligier.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Simmi

I saw this tweet from Laurent Mercier of Endurance-Info earlier. Seems to also be implying a Lambo/Ligier hook-up:
https://twitter.com/LaurentMercier2/...90471920369668

Regardless, I'm really pleased for Ligier.

I wonder if the cost of the chassis is the same between manufacturers? In other words, is VAG not getting any discount by bundling all their cars with Multimatic? Seems like maybe Ligier has the capacity (and free time?) to dedicate to a new program, and maybe the more focused attention will benefit Lambo instead of having to piggyback off of the existing Porsche/Audi?

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by joeb

I wonder if the cost of the chassis is the same between manufacturers? In other words, is VAG not getting any discount by bundling all their cars with Multimatic? Seems like maybe Ligier has the capacity (and free time?) to dedicate to a new program, and maybe the more focused attention will benefit Lambo instead of having to piggyback off of the existing Porsche/Audi?

I don't think manufacturers are actually scared by the cost of chassis, speaking abou VAG/multimatic to me is more likely a matter of time and scheduling... multimatic is involved in countless projects... AM valhalla/valkyrie production, ford mustang gt3, production of parts for road ferrari engines etc... I think it's quite unlikely multimatic can produce the same amount of lmp2/lmdh chassis that oreca can do in one year, being the french manufacturer focused only on that.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by joeb

I wonder if the cost of the chassis is the same between manufacturers? In other words, is VAG not getting any discount by bundling all their cars with Multimatic? Seems like maybe Ligier has the capacity (and free time?) to dedicate to a new program, and maybe the more focused attention will benefit Lambo instead of having to piggyback off of the existing Porsche/Audi?

Aren't LMP2 cars somewhat locked in for costs so the additional costs would be fairly insignificant relative building the entire program.

Multimatic already said with Porsche there were only going to be so many chassis available and possibly late rollout of customer programs. I could see them telling VAG "sorry, you want Lambo it's 2024 at the earliest guys and then maybe fewer customer cars for Porsche.". The really interesting part is the Audi we swear we ARE making a car, promise. No Audis makes more cars available overall. And without any GTP partner and only LMP3 cars out there for them Ligier might have offered a better deal as well to partially find their next gen LMP2 car and get track time in it before it's frozen.

I wouldn't guess Multimatic GT programs would take up time or resources for GTP cars. Remember the street GTs are done before they're really deep in to Mustang GT3 development so there's resources freed up with GT experience.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Simmi

I saw this tweet from Laurent Mercier of Endurance-Info earlier. Seems to also be implying a Lambo/Ligier hook-up:
https://twitter.com/LaurentMercier2/...90471920369668

Regardless, I'm really pleased for Ligier.

This is great news, I suppose then that the Lambo LMDh will be able to use the V10 or V12 instead of the boring V8 Turbo.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

This is great news, I suppose then that the Lambo LMDh will be able to use the V10 or V12 instead of the boring V8 Turbo.

Whatever this ligier-lambo rumor may reveal true or not, I can't see lambo using NA high rev, poor efficient and bulky engines... that won't make any sense, at that point would be more clever to rebrand and use gibson 4.5L V8 which is powerful, more compact, lighter and fairly more efficient.
And, just my opinion, but knowing that important lambo decisions are actually taken by audi, this rumor may reveal true only if lambo was forced to contact a different chassis supplier because of impossibility for multimatic to produce further chassis... which is more like a desperate move since none seems to be interested in ligier/onroak chassis... unless onroak is going to produce a carbon tub compatible with porsche lmdh bodywork/powertrain package... similiar to first models of acura arx's that used older courage lc tubs as replacement tub, or like mazda-lolas made with multimatic produced tubs.

[Simmi]

Not quite fitting in with the positivity angle - but the news Audi we feared might be edging closer - https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...ertain-future/

[GingerPixel]

Would rather have a Lambo than an Audi

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by GingerPixel

Would rather have a Lambo than an Audi

It's clear that audi current best efforts are in
1 dakar since they exposed too much Q e-tron brand to fail
2 f1 engine development



it would make some sense for audi sport to shift lmdh program to lamborghini supporting them with work drivers and engineers. More or less it's basically what they did with bentley 20 years ago.

[Simmi]

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...rams-for-2024/

BMW looking at expanding their programme in their second season (2024). Customer cars and WEC a possibility.

I think politically, having some WEC presence is going to be important going forward if you want to be at Le Mans.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Simmi

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...rams-for-2024/

BMW looking at expanding their programme in their second season (2024). Customer cars and WEC a possibility.

I think politically, having some WEC presence is going to be important going forward if you want to be at Le Mans.

That is probably the correct calculus to play at the moment.

Also mentions that the car should be out testing in Europe this summer followed by a US testing program with Rahal.

[S griffin]

Also the more cars they have, the more feedback they can get and the better their development will be, so good plan by BMW