[BTCC] BTCC News & Rumours 2025

[SV8Predator]

Originally Posted by auroan

Which is exactly why I see/saw it as hype, after applying critical thinking.

You applied "critical thinking"?

What is that, exactly...?
(In this context, obvs.)

[mf51]

Originally Posted by BtccLee

Hybrid out, 100% sustainable fuel in for 2025 with boost coming purely from turbo power: https://btcc.net/btcc-introduces-100...ybrid-departs/

Wow.

Yeah it is wow. Was not expecting that. I thought they had it right this year with the hybrid allocation too.
Surprised it lasted only 3 seasons.
Can’t say I’ll miss it though.

[auroan]

Originally Posted by RacingMaverick

I imagine Cosworth had to be bought out of the contract so the teams 2025 budget expectations won't reduce.

It's looking already like quite a different landscape to the grid in 2025.

Teams are only in contract with Cosworth from season to season. The "single supply" contract is with TOCA, not the teams.

[auroan]

Originally Posted by SV8Predator

You applied "critical thinking"?

What is that, exactly...?
(In this context, obvs.)

Critical thinking is the process of evaluating and questioning what you see, hear, read, or say. It involves making reasoned judgments based on evidence, and is an important skill for many subjects and disciplines.

Unfortunately a lot of people get brainwashed by the media or others... with out actually sitting down and looking at the evidence for them selves.

Hope that helps

Taking Hybrid in racing (for performance) as an example. It is a way of trying to make motorsport "green". It defo did not do that for the BTCC. Therefore it was a gimmic (hype). Sustainable fuel on the other hand... in the context of making the C02 generated in the burn matching the C02 taken out of the environment is much less of a gimmic and has some factual evidence behind it of being green.


Hybrid vehicles in public use... is another ball game and the hybrid is designed for efficiency and not performance. But when people who do not apply critical thinking..... lay it out as the same as hybrid in motorsports... then. Well there you go.

[crmalcolm]

It seems that at some point in the last few years, Cosworth and TOCA have deviated in their thinking of the future of hybrid.

Take this comment from Cosworth's Tom Brown during the development of the system: 'You can see that maybe someone hasn’t got as much regen, or that they’re running out of deployment per lap. [...]they must juggle power and range [...] Cosworth is exploring ways to let drivers select different strategies. If you’re stuck in traffic, for instance, it might make sense to go to max regen – the car in front’s holding you up anyway, and the boost you build up could help you pass when the track clears.'

The way it was implemented removed this regen element of the strategy, and resulted in the same tactics being used by the majority of the grid.

[auroan]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

It seems that at some point in the last few years, Cosworth and TOCA have deviated in their thinking of the future of hybrid.

Take this comment from Cosworth's Tom Brown during the development of the system: 'You can see that maybe someone hasn’t got as much regen, or that they’re running out of deployment per lap. [...]they must juggle power and range [...] Cosworth is exploring ways to let drivers select different strategies. If you’re stuck in traffic, for instance, it might make sense to go to max regen – the car in front’s holding you up anyway, and the boost you build up could help you pass when the track clears.'

The way it was implemented removed this regen element of the strategy, and resulted in the same tactics being used by the majority of the grid.

Agree. Cosworth were thinking and working in the world of F1 and WEC where this comes into play.

TOCA were just wanting an artificial way of making the racing less boring and trying to nod to the "climate crisis" (speech marks intentional )

[SV8Predator]

Originally Posted by auroan

Critical thinking is the process of evaluating and questioning what you see, hear, read, or say. It involves making reasoned judgments based on evidence, and is an important skill for many subjects and disciplines.

Oh, I know what critical thinking means, I just didn't see any evidence of that in your original post.

[auroan]

Originally Posted by SV8Predator

Oh, I know what critical thinking means, I just didn't see any evidence of that in your original post.

Oh I'm sorry. I didn't know we all have to explain every single thought process when commenting in a forum ?

How very rude of me.

[coffinpilot]

Watson gone according to Speedworks on socials.
Not unexpected - by mutual agreement stuff.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

Watson gone according to Speedworks on socials.
Not unexpected - by mutual agreement stuff.

“Due to various reasons, we didn’t operate at the level needed to fight at the front in the BTCC” - Watson

So at least 2 drivers this year left unimpressed by Speedworks (and/or perhaps Speedworks unimpressed by 2 drivers this year!)

[TinTopGrumpy]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1CtbjJn7ba/

53 sponsors on a car!

How many are Lando's personal sponsors that he looks after himself though?

[TinTopGrumpy]

Originally Posted by Evantra

“Due to various reasons, we didn’t operate at the level needed to fight at the front in the BTCC” - Watson

So at least 2 drivers this year left unimpressed by Speedworks (and/or perhaps Speedworks unimpressed by 2 drivers this year!)

Speedworks looking for a new number one mechanic for BTCC as well.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by TinTopGrumpy

Speedworks looking for a new number one mechanic for BTCC as well.

Shouldn't be too hard to find. I bet lots of people would love to work there

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

Watson gone according to Speedworks on socials.
Not unexpected - by mutual agreement stuff.

Well - that must surely mean a rumour can now develop regarding Watson's connection to MB Partners, so that means Moffat and Watson in LKQ BMW's at WSR.

[tocatrucky]

Originally Posted by Evantra

“Due to various reasons, we didn’t operate at the level needed to fight at the front in the BTCC” - Watson

So at least 2 drivers this year left unimpressed by Speedworks (and/or perhaps Speedworks unimpressed by 2 drivers this year!)

IMO the latter.

Watson isn't really an elbows out kind of driver required for BTCC, he's more like Turkington a racer not a scrapper, he couldn't dial the car in well enough to qualify himself higher up ahead of the midfield tussles so got bogged down.

Moffat is only happy when everything going well, when its not then he's not then everyone knows about it. Not a pleasant environment, too many of those since he left Ciceley.

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

Watson gone according to Speedworks on socials.
Not unexpected - by mutual agreement stuff.

Official release for those who haven't seen it:

https://mailchi.mp/1c251092fa47/spee...8?e=c8dda47fcb

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by tocatrucky

Moffat is only happy when everything going well, when its not then he's not then everyone knows about it. Not a pleasant environment, too many of those since he left Ciceley.

Not sure that attitude would go down so well at WSR, should those rumours be true.

[coffinpilot]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Not sure that attitude would go down so well at WSR, should those rumours be true.

And if Dad has one of his 'moments' like at Silverstone (with Russell Morgan?) or Croft (with Chilton's mother?) while part of the WSR entourage.....

Best hide the beers and wine in the BMW tent!

[Matt K]

Wonder if Watson stays in the BTCC at all. Third year in a third team would be quite a worrying trend but something definitely didn't work for the Speedworks/Watson combination. In his rookie year, Watson showed a lot of promise and potential but this year he went off the radar completely, much like George Gamble before him. Is it something about Speedworks or is it coincidence, I don't know.
But the certain thing is that on paper Speedworks/TGR looks like one of the best teams on the grid - strong (for BTCC standards) factory support, four cars, good names behind the wheels - yet they're constantly underperforming or at least fail to live up to expectations. Seems like time's slowly running out for them to finally deliver.

[BtccLee]

Midweek Motorsport confirmed last night that there will be a second MB Motorsport entry, driver to be confirmed in due course...

[MarcusH26]

Originally Posted by BtccLee

Midweek Motorsport confirmed last night that there will be a second MB Motorsport entry, driver to be confirmed in due course...

Would love this to be Bobby T but I suspect it will be someone that brings a bit of a budget too. Not convinced that it will be Watson.

[BTCC frog]

Andrew Watson seemed to go brilliantly any time it was wet in 2023, particularly the debut weekend in Donington which was one of the finest debut weekends I can remember, but also Knockhill and Silverstone. But in the dry he was well off Taylor-Smith's pace and I think generally slower than Doble as well. I can't recall many drivers with such a disparity between wet and dry. In 2024 he was quite fast, I thought, but made too many mistakes. I would be surprised if he is at WSR but think he is worthy of a place elsewhere on the grid. George Gamble's drop-off was more surprising, I think, as he looked a bit more well-rounded in his debut season with Ciceley (and similarly peaked in his very first weekend at Donington).

It would be great to see either Rory Butcher or Ricky Collard return for 2025, Butcher had a very disappointing final season but before that he was among the best on the grid, particularly in 2019-20. After an underwhelming 2022, Collard was randomly brilliant in 2023 and involved in many exciting moments so there is a lot of potential there. But somehow I can't see it for either of them in 2025.

I like these rumours about One Motorsport returning, more teams would be very welcome. I could also imagine Restart Racing running Hyundais next year after all the talk of an Excelr8 satellite team.

[BtccLee]

Originally Posted by MarcusH26

Would love this to be Bobby T but I suspect it will be someone that brings a bit of a budget too. Not convinced that it will be Watson.

Should’ve added, it is a returning driver not currently on the grid.

[coffinpilot]

Watson back to PMR?
Rumoured here first??!!

Noted in Autosport today that Smiley talks about having Hamilton or Lloyd as a team mate would be good. Commercial boss Peter Jones replies "You can infer something from that...."

[Overboost]

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

And if Dad has one of his 'moments' like at Silverstone (with Russell Morgan?) or Croft (with Chilton's mother?) while part of the WSR entourage.....

Best hide the beers and wine in the BMW tent!

Before leaving Brands I would have said Moffat would be run under the MB banner, as LKQ were ‘guests’ in with MB as well as with their team at Speedworks. However, after another one of Mr Moffat Snr’s ‘moments’ at the season after party, involving an MB sport staff member, it might be just a separate LKQ car run by WSR or some bridges will have needed building.

[MarcusH26]

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

Watson back to PMR?
Rumoured here first??!!

Noted in Autosport today that Smiley talks about having Hamilton or Lloyd as a team mate would be good. Commercial boss Peter Jones replies "You can infer something from that...."

Lloyd would be an excellent teammate if the financials all make sense. Someone I still think has unfinished business with the championship