TVR Griffiths 200/400 and their Chassis Numbers

[terence]

The 'Guru' was not intended for you Neil,as for the 'ignorance',not a word I used.

[esper]

my therapy today! , concerning building own Griffs. a quick release for the motolita steering wheel of UOO 4f , without damaging the identity of the car . It took me an hour on the wonderfull Harrison . I couldnt race today because of other-car-problems.............but this was very relaxing; cheers, Esper!

[simon drabble]

Originally Posted by terence bower

If you knew how much money that car has cost over the years,I think you would agree that it IS a snip!;
Not many other Griff's can claim winning the Spa Six Hour either.

Always dangerous to confuse development cost with end value.... out of interest what is the general consensus of cost to get it to HTP spec? If this and other Griff's rightly or wrongly are too costly to convert I expect the values of them will fall which is presumably why several long term owners have recently put theirs up for sale...

[Heightswitch]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

Always dangerous to confuse development cost with end value.... out of interest what is the general consensus of cost to get it to HTP spec? If this and other Griff's rightly or wrongly are too costly to convert I expect the values of them will fall which is presumably why several long term owners have recently put theirs up for sale...

You've hit the nail on the head Simon. the value of any car of which only a few hundered were made some 45 years ago will never really fall. The prospectors will get out of the market and the market will fluctuate slightly but ultimately values will never really dip too much

HTP currently will require an extensive re-build for that car. What would be far more likely will be that an enthusiast for the marque buys the car who couldn't give a stuff about Fia and just enjoys it in club racing.

To return the car to its original width would similarly require quite a bit of work.

Therein lies the Rub.

The Fia have merely made it awkward for someone trapped in the middle. to run a griffith with 8" wheels.

you either spend a shed of money to run to the HTP spec or spend a shed of money to return the car to its original width which can only manage 7" rims.

That leaves a load of cars modified to an earlier set of rules out in the wilderness.

My car is similarly arched, although in my opinion much more subtly carried out. whilst it is easier to alter a car mechanically to meet changing regs, the same cannot be said of the body without essentially carrying out a full body off and re-spray. when you go to that length then generally it becomes much more cost effective to re-body the car.

This is why so many griff owners feel a little agrieved.

All the current HTP regs have achieved is to force the people that can still afford Fia racing to spend a shed load of money ultimately to achieve what they had before. The flipside is that because the new body style has actually been proven at spa to reduce a griffs tendancy to take off at anyting over 140mph, the cars will still end up being much faster than they ever were, which doubtless will cause the clique to look at them again into the future.

N.

[esper]

Originally Posted by Heightswitch

The Fia have merely made it awkward for someone trapped in the middle. to run a griffith with 8" wheels.

you either spend a shed of money to run to the HTP spec or spend a shed of money to return the car to its original width which can only manage 7" rims.

All the current HTP regs have achieved is to force the people that can still afford Fia racing to spend a shed load of money ultimately to achieve what they had before. The flipside is that because the new body style has actually been proven at spa to reduce a griffs tendancy to take off at anyting over 140mph, the cars will still end up being much faster than they ever were, which doubtless will cause the clique to look at them again into the future.

N.

Heighswitch I hope I can prove it can be different (wont make my car wider alone for the history itself)

[Heightswitch]

Originally Posted by esper

Heighswitch I hope I can prove it can be different (wont make my car wider alone for the history itself)

I am pretty sure that whatever top speed you can get to at Spa you will be enjoying yourself too much to think about it.

bye the way. I take your harrison and raise you a 1953 Colchester. pic here is with the old fella at the headstock



Out of interest I think for clarity the following 3 pictures are interesting when viewed side by side.







Does my bum look big in this!!

[terence]

At least I cannot be accused of trying to hide the fact.
Orriginally you type of 'blown' arch was on the agender but we decided against taking that route purely to make it obvious as to what had been done.

[Heightswitch]

Changing tack a bit.

I thought you might like to see some pics of an old banger me and the old fella are putting together. The old man turned 70 2 weeks ago so we didn't want to go daft with the car.

Car is a Vixen S2 rescued from a back garden in Bolton.

Body had had a smack in the rear before being put under a tarp for 25 years.

The old man is now a dab hand with the old placcy and has restored the main tub, grafted on some new rear wings and basically re-laminated everything back together.

Chassis is now going together well and will run Quaife hubs in my own LM25 cast rear uprights. Cosworth Lsd, a nice 2.0 Zetec with throttlebodies mated up to a Long 2.8 ratio'd type 9 and about 200hp

Welding on the chassis is now pretty much there.

final assembly before the end of this year.

This one should be a nice little road car when finished.





















N.

[mark garritt]

Heightswitch,

Looks like you've got your entertainment sorted for the winter nights, good luck!

[esper]

I like it!

[mark garritt]

Originally Posted by terence bower

At least I cannot be accused of trying to hide the fact.
Orriginally you type of 'blown' arch was on the agender but we decided against taking that route purely to make it obvious as to what had been done.

Really more for completeness Terry and as my car has been commented on, I would not be doing the previous owners/builders or the car any favours without saying-

The chassis on the car is correct, the engine on the car is correct (save the roller rockers), the cage is correct, the brakes, uprights, hubs are a bit trick, but then I think that’s how is used to work, the arches are too wide, but then if you’re going to HTP the car, the body needs modifying.

The builders of the car are emphatic than other than mentioned, the car is very honest with a super history. We’ve got quotes to gain HTP papers, the car is priced to make sure if a potential buyer wants to get papers, they can, and still have a sensible profit in the car too.

The car has been advertised honestly and is not professing to be anything other than it is.

There have been a couple of comments on the car, no-one brave enough to say out loud what their view is or brave enough to put their money where their mouth is. Just an annoying and unhelpful undercurrent, which is shame (Heightswitch, not you guys, know you were just having a bit of banter), the comments have come from person(s) with, lets say an interests in other projects, and it’s true to say, sometimes it’s easy to shoot your mouth off and assume those comments do not get repeated.

We’ve had the chassis measured; the engine inspected there’s nothing wrong with it. It’ll be a fantastic car in current form at 400BHP for club events or sprints, even a very very fast road car, or a genuine investment once HTP’d, and in some ways a far safer one than an e-type, it looks like the FIA are now looking at them, at least with a Griff, we now know what the rules are!

Cheers

Mark 07774 781325 if anyone wants to discuss further!

[Heightswitch]

I don't think anyone who actually "knows" about griffiths would have a beef with your Car Mark.

Your car is a documented griff which has evolved over the years. The beef lies with the Fia and the clique who have done their level best over recent years to outlaw these very successful cars.

I am not sure who you are alluding to when you mention an under current regards your car but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

We have done the Fia thing to death on this forum, sufficed to say that one day probably next year when I have saved my pennies, when SWMBO gets the shower room and the new kitchen, I may then be in a position to come out for a play.

There are a few recent purchasers of cars who have become armchair experts, usually off the back of info gleaned from others!!

My honest advice Mark would be to keep the car and enjoy it. It is far far more important to race something that you enjoy racing than to choose something that will win with which you don't have some soul invested!

A good mate of mine always quotes the following club racers mantle which should never be forgotten:

"Points make Pratts !"

I have 1 racer to finish, 1 Road car for the old man before he gets to 71 and after that I have yet another Chassis tucked away.

Meanwhile. Just in case any uninformed idiot disputes what you have, here are a couple of pics from its very early days.





N

[mark garritt]

Originally Posted by Heightswitch

I don't think anyone who actually "knows" about griffiths would have a beef with your Car Mark.

Your car is a documented griff which has evolved over the years. The beef lies with the Fia and the clique who have done their level best over recent years to outlaw these very successful cars.

I am not sure who you are alluding to when you mention an under current regards your car but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

We have done the Fia thing to death on this forum, sufficed to say that one day probably next year when I have saved my pennies, when SWMBO gets the shower room and the new kitchen, I may then be in a position to come out for a play.

There are a few recent purchasers of cars who have become armchair experts, usually off the back of info gleaned from others!!

My honest advice Mark would be to keep the car and enjoy it. It is far far more important to race something that you enjoy racing than to choose something that will win with which you don't have some soul invested!

A good mate of mine always quotes the following club racers mantle which should never be forgotten:

"Points make Pratts !"

I have 1 racer to finish, 1 Road car for the old man before he gets to 71 and after that I have yet another Chassis tucked away.

Meanwhile. Just in case any uninformed idiot disputes what you have, here are a couple of pics from its very early days.





N

Thanks very much, you know I might just take your advice, and thanks for the photos too!

[terence]

Lovely period shots Neil,good luck with your project btw.
One thing to mention about the car is that as all of the arches were sectioned using the original,if the next owner wanted to revert back to standard,it certainly would not take much work to do that.

[mark garritt]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Lovely period shots Neil,good luck with your project btw.
One thing to mention about the car is that as all of the arches were sectioned using the original,if the next owner wanted to revert back to standard,it certainly would not take much work to do that.

That's very helpful to know thanks Terry. Picked her up this morning, what a lovely little car, sounds awsome, proper car

[Moby]

I love these pictures of DRT, it was great back then.

I suppose you all know who's driving it..... Answers on a postcard!

[Heightswitch]

Originally Posted by Moby

I love these pictures of DRT, it was great back then.

I suppose you all know who's driving it..... Answers on a postcard!

Lovely bloke, hails from around redditch, known to build the odd TVR Racer !!

N

[terence]

Originally Posted by mark garritt

That's very helpful to know thanks Terry. Picked her up this morning, what a lovely little car, sounds awsome, proper car

Quite agree Mark,very 'interesting' around somewhere like Mallory!
I must say that its all quite amusing really,people are throwing many thousands of pounds at these cars,still trying for an outright at Spa!.You'r car did it on 7inch rim's and using Dunlop Histo's. Funny old world,isn't it?

[DaveGT6]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Quite agree Mark,very 'interesting' around somewhere like Mallory!
I must say that its all quite amusing really,people are throwing many thousands of pounds at these cars,still trying for an outright at Spa!.You'r car did it on 7inch rim's and using Dunlop Histo's. Funny old world,isn't it?

Substantial shift in goalposts since then!

[terence]

Originally Posted by DaveGT6

Substantial shift in goalposts since then!

You could say that Dave,the question has to be "Why"? Before this is answered best to look at the Shipman version!

[jellison]

Whoooaa - Holy Thread Resurrection Batman.

We are talking about the DG car? Just drive it enjoy it. Unless basically and can have a killer fia spec engine and the current wide body fia regs are at least clarified (daft but clarified). How many people can travel all over Europe to many meeting with vast resources / pit crews to do these events.

Just enjoy it and do some club stuff.

Or drive it on the road - 400bhp Griff woul make a nice shopper

BTW - I have 45 pic's of various DG cars handed to me recently which I keep meaning to scan - load of the yellow car and 20 other 200 Griff's being driven by the big man.

I'll have to as Gregor if ok to post them (I'll start scanning them).

What chassi no. is the DRT car?

[jellison]

Originally Posted by esper

Heighswitch I hope I can prove it can be different (wont make my car wider alone for the history itself)

Themods are not Massive if you already have a papered car (400), the burks at the fia don't like 200's to have papers (think they are ok in standard form but not allowed to have the current mods as the 1 Paul car was done on a UK 400).

All you need to do is contact Nigel Reuben and get him to do the work, rear arches changes, front flitch panels (outer footwells pulled out a tad) and a different bonnet and a respray. That has to be under £10k, the rest ofthe car if already papered is not effected.

This has no bearing on standard width cars (i.e. Espers).

[terence]

That sounds expensive.

[terence]

That sounds expensive.
Chris Sherle was responsible for virtually all of the DRT registered car's.

[jellison]

DRT is one car not many?

Building these things is not really that hard - just time and common sense.

Oh - I'll just add my thoughts on people buying a selling (to make a quick buck).

You would not do this with you wife, how can your Griff be any different (for life),
Drive it, Race it, Enjoy if. Motor trade - don't get me started................