GP 2012 General chat (split from volunteering thread)

[Bodysnatcher]

It is a discussion board Chezza & I did say say

"lacked any experience of a level of racing above BTCC"

I did'nt stipulate any time frame, and no it does'nt make you a bad marshal per se if you're so into a good club racing scene that FIA stuff is'nt on your dance card (sorry, PRC) any more, but it does hark back to the sort of things the Richards are on about.

I also mentioned that I believe at least one of each MSA championship sprint/hillclimb/rallcross day should be counted (for some roles), rather than zero. To me that indicates someone with a broader knowledge base.

Skills should be maintained, and a knowledge/experience of how an FIA level race / event works prior to jumping into a GP in a some roles (but note, not all) would, I feel, not be a bad prerequisite.

carry on discussing,
at this rate I'll keep up the page viewing rates till next season

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by chezza

I have no interest in BTCC, F3, FIA GT's or any of the other international stuff that may be about, the weekends just don't interest me (I have done events like this in the past but now prefer clubbie events). Does the fact that I only do club meetings make me any less qualified to marshal at the GP?? I don't think that it does.

no definately not, that's not the way i would have liked my comment to come across, i dont mean it in a bad way and certainly not "better than thou". i thought i worded ok, clearly not then,

in fact in the future i might prefer to do clubbie events only as that's the way hundreds/thousands of marshals have to tended to do.

[numbersix]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

... experience of a level of racing above BTCC...

I'd have thought that most races are above the level of BTCC ...

[richrad smith]

I dont know if any one has been aying attention to the notes that were released with the form for the 2012 GP at silverstone. They have dropped the requirement of day marshalled from 12 to 10 for 2012

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by richrad smith

I dont know if any one has been aying attention to the notes that were released with the form for the 2012 GP at silverstone. They have dropped the requirement of day marshalled from 12 to 10 for 2012

nice try...!

[Woolley]

I've always thought hill-climbs should count as we tend to handle broken F1-style cars on a fairly regular basis, wheras the average circuit marshal probably gets their hands on a big single seater every couple of years. As long as there's a decent number of circuit days as well to be sure they're comfortable with other traffic around.

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by Woolley

I've always thought hill-climbs should count as we tend to handle broken F1-style cars on a fairly regular basis

As far as I'm aware, there's only 1 hill climb that involves F1 cars

[Bodysnatcher]

"F1-style"
this may seem a daft question to the Guinness - but have you seen the likes of a Pilbeam or a Gould run up a hill? You'll be damn sight closer to the car than at just about any point on dear old sanitised Silverstone.

(vested interest in Hillclimbing - my first motorsport event was at Doune)

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

"F1-style"
this may seem a daft question to the Guinness - but have you seen the likes of a Pilbeam or a Gould run up a hill?

hence...

Originally Posted by Guinness2702

As far as I'm aware, there's only 1 hill climb that involves F1 cars

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by Woolley

I've always thought hill-climbs should count as we tend to handle broken F1-style cars on a fairly regular basis, wheras the average circuit marshal probably gets their hands on a big single seater every couple of years. As long as there's a decent number of circuit days as well to be sure they're comfortable with other traffic around.

its a shame that the f1 process didnt take karting, Hclimbs, speed events into account. to guiness a gould car may do just under a 1km course with extremely tight corners in about 50 seconds. very fast. unless its a joke im not getting most hillclimbs have f1 cars in, theyre not made for hillclimbs though and can be slower than the purpose made goulds pilbeams and even oms sometimes (if the f1 cars are oldies!)... agreed from the 17 days or so of hillclimbs ive done they are good practice to start with for all types of marshalling its probably the best place to start off as a trainee post chief, you may have 5 or so cars on the hill at a time but there's no risk of contact and you deal with 1 (or 2) cars at a time with only a spin normally , incident marshalling if there's a busy corner you may get quite a few spinners in a day that wont be able to unspin themselves as most hillclimbs are very.....hilly!, flagging there's only 1 flag but it takes good anticipation on whether to red flag a car closing onto another slower one, dont bother and get it wrong and the faster guy will claim he's been impeded and its creating a dangerous situation, do red flag and the faster guy has to have a rerun and it wastes 5 minutes. fia karting is the same flags as fia circuit events almost but the gaps are smaller and the racing far more frenetic. some speed events the big boys with hairdryer cars without the hairdryer engines will run around a tight course with better performance figures again than f1 cars

sometimes single seater circuit race can seem a bit.... tame

[hellblade]

so after all that do they count hill climbs towards the f1?

with hill climbs you might only be dealing with one car at a time (course marshal) but your still dealing with, al right at circuits you could land up with multiple car crunches but the principles of marshalling would still be the same i guess.

[HairyDJ]

[QUOTE=hellblade;2978110]so after all that do they count hill climbs towards the f1?
QUOTE]

nope! this bit of the thread has demonstrated rather well that marshals are good at marshalling & the MSA / FIA are good at paperwork

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by hellblade

with hill climbs you might only be dealing with one car at a time (course marshal) but your still dealing with, al right at circuits you could land up with multiple car crunches but the principles of marshalling would still be the same i guess.

Agreed, hence my caveat:

Originally Posted by Woolley

As long as there's a decent number of circuit days as well to be sure they're comfortable with other traffic around.

However they're much more experienced with the type of car on the whole, and deal with some pretty big shunts. It's very relevant as part of your season's experience IMO, but not currently included.

On the other hand, on GP day, most of us would rather be at Loton anyway

[Ubique]

Originally Posted by Woolley

I've always thought hill-climbs should count as we tend to handle broken F1-style cars on a fairly regular basis, wheras the average circuit marshal probably gets their hands on a big single seater every couple of years. As long as there's a decent number of circuit days as well to be sure they're comfortable with other traffic around.

Sorry Woolley but I have to totally disagree with you on this. Hillclimbs like Rallies, Karting, Sprints and Bikes can all help build up your experience as a marshal but they are totally different disciplines to circuit (car) racing and I think it's right that the MSA exclude them from qualifying towards the GP.

Now I think Body Snatcher's the idea of having to do major international meetings before being allowed to do the GP may have merit, not that FIA Truck racing has anything in common with F1! But what would you say should qualify? Lets not forget that the BTCC is run on an international licence and is a very high profile event with significant media coverage (unlike FIA GT's). As BS said we have 6 FIA meetings in the UK each year but how many are near Snetterton, Croft, Oulton, Anglesea, Pembrey, Castle Coombe, Cadwell, Thruxton, Knockhill or Kirkistown? Yes I know marshals from these circuits do travel to other meetings but what if you can only afford to take the time off work and the fuel costs of a long trek to a big event once a year (i.e the GP)? Should these marshals not be allowed to do the GP just because of their geographical location or financial situation? It's ok for those of us living close to Silverstone, Brands or Donington, but remember it is the British Grand Prix not the big circuit marshals grand prix. So while I agree that it is a good idea in principle it will only work if you say must have done International meetings (inc BTCC, F3/GT etc) rather than just FIA events, although even this wouldn't be ideal. Also would the international meeting have to be that qualifying year (which IMHO it should be) or in the mists of time?

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by Ubique

Sorry Woolley but I have to totally disagree with you on this. Hillclimbs like Rallies, Karting, Sprints and Bikes can all help build up your experience as a marshal but they are totally different disciplines to circuit (car) racing and I think it's right that the MSA exclude them from qualifying towards the GP.

Now I think Body Snatcher's the idea of having to do major international meetings before being allowed to do the GP may have merit, not that FIA Truck racing has anything in common with F1! But what would you say should qualify? Lets not forget that the BTCC is run on an international licence and is a very high profile event with significant media coverage (unlike FIA GT's). As BS said we have 6 FIA meetings in the UK each year but how many are near Snetterton, Croft, Outlon, Anglesea, Pembrey, Castle Coombe, Cadwell, Thruxton, Knockhill or Kirkistown? Yes I know marshals from these circuits do travel to other meetings but what if you can only afford to take the time off work and the fuel costs of a long trek to a big event once a year (i.e the GP)? Should these marshals not be allowed to do the GP just because of their geographical location or financial situation? It's ok for those of us living close to Silverstone, Brands or Donington, but remember it is the British Grand Prix not the big circuit marshals grand prix. So while I agree that it is a good idea in principle it will only work if you say must have done International meetings (inc BTCC, F3/GT etc) rather than just FIA events, although even this wouldn't be ideal. Also would the international meeting have to be that qualifying year (which IMHO it should be) or in the mists of time?

yeah the distinction between international meetings and fia meetings is quite easily confused, it is weird to see btcc as international even though it is for obvious reasons, before i was a marshal i believed anything with fia in the name is international anyway!

[Bodysnatcher]

Originally Posted by Ubique

Sorry Woolley ..long but relevant ..?

Bodysnatcher's plan
was that marshals should be allowed to count 1 day from each of
the MSA championships Hillclimb / Sprint / Rallycross
towards the magic 14

and that for some roles, previous FIA meeting experience would be desirable
(ie flaggies/IOs/post chiefs)
However, that experience could come from a few years as a course marshal at the GP, where prior exposure to FIA graded meetings could, as you pointed out, be hard for some to obtain.

[Guinness2702]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

Bodysnatcher's plan ...

Sounds almost as complicated as Guinness2702's plan to allocate marshals at overmanned meetings

[Ubique]

Bodysnatcher you quoted part of my post then put relevant as if that's what I wrote which I find to be very rude! If you had read what I put you would have realised that the first part of my quote was in response to a post by Woolley, hence why I quoted him and hence why it was relevant. The second part of my post was in response to your idea which while I agree has merit is flawed as I pointed out. If you are going to quote me in future please do so without putting words in my mouth!

[Bodysnatcher]

attack the post not the poster..

FWIW, Ubique I found your post very relevant, but perhaps just too long to quote in full, especially after newyankee01 had just done so.

My clumsy attempt to acknowledge you by choosing your first words and last character, whilst expressing that I thought it all relevant really seems to would you up, perhaps a <snip> would have been better
ho hum

Now, do you want a full printed retraction, a reply where I quote you in full, then address the part of the post that I found most relevant to my hare brained idea or shall I just donate 1p to a charity of your choosing.

beats

[Ubique]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

attack the post not the poster..

FWIW, Ubique I found your post very relevant, but perhaps just too long to quote in full, especially after newyankee01 had just done so.

My clumsy attempt to acknowledge you by choosing your first words and last character, whilst expressing that I thought it all relevant really seems to would you up, perhaps a <snip> would have been better
ho hum

Now, do you want a full printed retraction, a reply where I quote you in full, then address the part of the post that I found most relevant to my hare brained idea or shall I just donate 1p to a charity of your choosing.

beats

In that case sorry for snapping BS but it came across as if you were questioning the relevance and I was probably being a tad over sensitive

Altho if you really do want to donate some money to charity there are a few ex forces charities that always need support.

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by Bodysnatcher

attack the post not the poster..

FWIW, Ubique I found your post very relevant, but perhaps just too long to quote in full, especially after newyankee01 had just done so.

My clumsy attempt to acknowledge you by choosing your first words and last character, whilst expressing that I thought it all relevant really seems to would you up, perhaps a <snip> would have been better
ho hum

Now, do you want a full printed retraction, a reply where I quote you in full, then address the part of the post that I found most relevant to my hare brained idea or shall I just donate 1p to a charity of your choosing.

beats

aw, bruising!

[NewYankee01]

Originally Posted by Ubique

In that case sorry for snapping BS but it came across as if you were questioning the relevance and I was probably being a tad over sensitive

Altho if you really do want to donate some money to charity there are a few ex forces charities that always need support.

never mind i get my relevance questioned and am ridiculed all the time by some of the less experienced folk on here...!, i dont mind it when the mods pick up stuff because that's what theyve been tasked to do and theyre well within theyre rights,obviously there's the helpful advice from them and the agreements on different wavelengths like BS's sometimes and then there's others who absolutely positively lose me, on post its alright like it is with everyone, but on here we sometimes people seem to be made apologise or justify the most trivial of things, ive had some very lovely comments and messages on here which is part of why i love being on here but following this current message I cant be bothered with people going "oh dont use it then". now and again there's just the slightest of nastiness involved... take today, im just about to view what has been said about me on another post, here goes...

and yes bodysnatcher is right with your quote and my message itd have taken till next year to read it

[NewYankee01]

yes that 1p could go to 1 or 2 of my forces charities that i support, its all very close to my heart aswell, just bump it up to a £1. which may leave you short for 1 less egg and bacon bun!

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by NewYankee01

never mind i get my relevance questioned and am ridiculed all the time by some of the less experienced folk on here...!, i dont mind it when the mods pick up stuff because that's what theyve been tasked to do and theyre well within theyre rights,obviously there's the helpful advice from them and the agreements on different wavelengths like BS's sometimes and then there's others who absolutely positively lose me, on post its alright like it is with everyone, but on here we sometimes people seem to be made apologise or justify the most trivial of things, ive had some very lovely comments and messages on here which is part of why i love being on here but following this current message I cant be bothered with people going "oh dont use it then". now and again there's just the slightest of nastiness involved... take today, im just about to view what has been said about me on another post, here goes...

and yes bodysnatcher is right with your quote and my message itd have taken till next year to read it

Well you've absolutely lost me, I can't follow your post at all.

We've moved some long way from the original thread that Chris posted so I'm going to split some of this off into a general GP discussion thread so that those who just want to know what is happening with the GP don't have to wade through the various opinions.