British Rallycross Championship 2019

[silver bullet]

Originally Posted by chunder

You seriously think the series and tracks could not cope with 120 odd entries? Ban the rigs, it's simple. No need for them at club level and even MSA is club level always was.

The only place with paddock space for 120+ cars is Pembrey and that would mean using the grass paddock.
As for banning the rigs ... how do you think that would go down with some people, and try telling those people with their several hundred k cars that they are only clubmen

Originally Posted by chunder

They always used to manage back in the day when Stock hatch was strong which is essentially why it went balls up anyway. As some bright spark though there was enough to cover for two series.

Even then at Croft and Knockhill competitors were forced to park in areas used for spectator parking. It was not ideal and far from safe. Imagine what the insurers, risk assessors, and the HSE would say about that.

Originally Posted by chunder

You could perhaps structure it so that events with bigger paddocks and entries ran as BTRDA and RAC, and then run the odd BTRDA solus, You can't run Supercars at Blyton anyway, so that would fit. This is what used to happen.

Up until a couple of years ago I would have agreed with you on that, especially at tracks like Pembrey and Knockhill, and actually regularly suggested that to the powers that be. But now with the MSA championship running the WRX style qualifying-semis-final format and the BTRDA running traditional it would only cause confusion, on top of the time constraints.

Originally Posted by chunder

No reason why we couldn't go to Ireland again, or maybe try and sort something out with Holland or Belgium as those tracks have typically been shafted by IMG hosting fees. More costs, but maybe some deal could be done as before.

Totally agree with you on this one, especially regarding Ireland.

Originally Posted by chunder

You say driver would lose out, so cap the entry at a limit each track can cope with/ it's not hard, the more cars, the more fans, the more money the MSA makes, the more people spend at the track. Wouldn't you rather turn away entries than have to make them up on the day? Would make drivers plan better, get the money in early, rallies are usually booked out hours after they open for entries, not hard.

And what would happen if it were the high end drivers who missed out due to a cap.
And no, I wouldn't want to see any driver turned away. What if it was the same drivers who got turned down at consecutive events? They wouldn't stick around, and would be lost to the sport.

Originally Posted by chunder

If you are telling me Lydden or Croft could not cope with 100+ entries I would say nonsense.

Yes they could, but only just. One thing is certain the paddock would need to be better organised. And if there were problems during the day and curfew was getting close races would be lost.

Originally Posted by chunder

I did ask several drivers at Silverstone and they had no idea why the two series are not combined, all had raced in each series, and were dumbfouded initially at the double dates and the reasons given.

I would be interested who you spoke to, because all the drivers I know, (or at least those who care) know exactly why there was a clash of dates

Originally Posted by chunder

yes there would be a drop off, but what's better? Two split series with relatively poor grids, disparate but somewhat similar categories and racing at different tracks, or a series that is stable, stronger for being combined, less pointless nonsense and more dates.

There you have a contradiction.
If there was only one championship there would actually be less dates. I well remember the time when there were half a dozen or more championships and 20 plus meetings a year. More meetings equals more drivers and stronger championships. There were 12 new drivers at Blyton last weekend and also some new ones at Silverstone.
If both championships are allowed to grow we may soon see over 200 regular racers again, and maybe even a return of the Lydden and Croft winter series.
Cutting back to one championship and losing drivers would be counter productive at this point.

Originally Posted by chunder

What on earth is the point in having rallycross that can't run together, why have different classes? Why, because they can, not because its the right thing to do it's idiotic to the layman I'm sorry.

Again ... I agree with you, but if the MSA don't want Production then what can you do. Not everyone can afford a Mini or a Swift

Originally Posted by chunder

I don't know your position with either, but most people I talk to think along similar lines.

I am purely and simply a rallycross lover who races when and where he can afford it and with whoever is organising it.
I would suggest you come along to a BTRDA meeting and speak with the true grass roots racers. They are quite happy with the organisers, with the amount of track time they get, and the camaraderie in the paddock.



I still don't think you have said what would actually be gained by losing one of the championships.


As I have said before, if meetings were unviable and getting canceled then I would agree that there is only need for one championship, but they are not.
And as both organisations are giving their respective competitors what they want, and it is the racers who actually pay to race don't forget.
At the moment as both seem to be not only holding their own, but actually increasing let's just leave things alone and see what happens.

After all more choice of meetings with good racing at each is surely a good thing for the spectators too.

[chunder]

I was not really advodating the loss of a series, more combining the two at certain events.

if anything the MSA series should go. As that is weaker in my eyes.

But that would not go down well with the procters, Ollies, Godfreys etc.

As for proddy cars, a lot of the cars out there are largely proddy based, Mini, Swifts, I would suggest over half the grid is production based so that rule is immature and ridiculous from whoever came up with it.

My simple point is that these two series co existed perfectly many years ago, yes there were more tracks, but numbers were about the same, you can run them together, a few hurrah days a year with huge grids, and then run them separately.

My biggest beef is classes, why run them subtly different, run them the same.

I spend an awful lot of time watching short oval racing, and this pointless running basically the same cars to slightly different rules is bonkers and all about protectionism. Meaning you have to only run in one series, not a few, utterly stupid.

As for calling supercar drivers clubmen, they are I am M sorry, very rich ones, but they are in a rank amateur series, it is not in any way pro. They might spend a lot of money, that doesn;t make them professional, they do it as a hobby, Bakkerud or Loeb are pro's. Someone like Bennett is merely pushing company money into what he is doing.

[SnoodyMcFlude]

I'm inclined to agree about them being clubman racers, unless you're somehow differentiating between clubman and amateur. No one is paying these guys a wage to drive, possibly with the exception of someone like Miggins, so they're just doing it for the fun like the rest of us.

Ollie is slightly different because of how much he puts into the sport with stuff like RX150, but at the end of the day he's still entering out of his own pocket.

The problem with the BRC is that I don't think it's attractive enough to entice people to watch. Silverstone and Pembrey are both 3+ hours driving each way for me and if I'm doing that then I want to see a reasonable number of top level cars running closely. Watching a field where virtually everyone is going to make it to the final just doesn't make me want to drive 3 hours. I may do Pembrey as it's a double header, but I really don't fancy spending 6-8 hours driving to watch such a poor turn out.

[chunder]

I don't know if many of you know about the past but BTRDA was always run alongside the main British series, you had BRDA and BTRDA. Most drivers held licences for both I believe to allow them to run their local Lydden or Croft series aswell as national events. So you might get Gollop turning up at a random Croft meeting to test or Cadwell, and the rest be pretty much amateurs in Formula B and C, Minis and SPC. Or latterly Nova;s and Colways tyres series.

I don't really understand why this could not be done.

bullett says it's because they are both in good health, I would disagree with that, the MSA series is certainly suffering, if it were not for one make series it would have died I think. They are great but not that fabulous to watch or spectacular, though they benefit the sport and the events in other ways. They can co-exist, it simply takes will, and that seems lacking.

[silver bullet]

Originally Posted by chunder

I don't know if many of you know about the past but BTRDA was always run alongside the main British series, you had BRDA and BTRDA. Most drivers held licences for both I believe to allow them to run their local Lydden or Croft series aswell as national events. So you might get Gollop turning up at a random Croft meeting to test or Cadwell, and the rest be pretty much amateurs in Formula B and C, Minis and SPC. Or latterly Nova;s and Colways tyres series.

Back in those days it was the clubs (Thames Estuary, Swindon Pheonix, Darlington, etc etc,) that put on the meetings and invited the championships to use those meetings as points scoring rounds for whichever championship. And they also had their own (Croft Challenge, Lydden Winter Series.... etc)That is why some meetings could part of five or six different ones.
If you were a member of any of the organising clubs then you could enter any of the other clubs events without having to pay to join that club as well. Then you registered for whichever championships you wanted to be part of.

Originally Posted by chunder

I don't really understand why this could not be done.

The British Championship for many years has had the ambition to get itself known as a major championship, and it's ultimate aim is to have full entries comprised of only the top formulas. It is up to them where they want to pitch themselves, but while they still hold that ambition the status quo will remain.

Originally Posted by chunder

says it's because they are both in good health, I would disagree with that, the MSA series is certainly suffering, if it were not for one make series it would have died I think. They are great but not that fabulous to watch or spectacular, though they benefit the sport and the events in other ways. They can co-exist, it simply takes will, and that seems lacking.

I never said that they are both in good health .....
I said they were both able to puit on viable meetings.
The driver base is increasing, and the number of meetings are increasing, but we are still a long way from being in good health with both championships.
But if things keep going the way they are maybe in a year or two good health will approach. You may even see a British Championship meeting with regularly well into double figures of supercars, and super 1600's, and retros and juniors, and maybe only one other support formula.

We can live in hope.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by dwh43scale

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dwh38/albums

Nice shots. Will sift through mine at the weekend and get some uploaded.

Entry list for round 2 now online:

https://www.rallycrossbrx.com/news/e...at-lydden-hill

8 Supercars
9 Supernational/S1600
6 Junior Swift
11 Swift
10 BMW Mini
16 Retros (6 Group B/4WD, 4 Super Retro, 6 Retro)
4 RX150

Was hoping that the Supercar numbers might hit double figures for Lydden, hopefully a few more entries will come (including O'Donovan: guess he is waiting for a new engine?). Ditto for the Super Nationals numbers.

Great Retro numbers, hopefully Pat runs his RS200 this time. Godfrey back in his Fiesta, hope he has a better livery for it this time!

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Was hoping that the Supercar numbers might hit double figures for Lydden, hopefully a few more entries will come (including O'Donovan: guess he is waiting for a new engine?). Ditto for the Super Nationals numbers.

O'Donovan has got a spare car - he could just use that (like he did last year). Agree though that the numbers are disappointing in both Supercar and Supernational.

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Great Retro numbers, hopefully Pat runs his RS200 this time.

Retro is looking like the best class now - there's some great cars in there, looking forward to seeing the Stratos and Renault 5 in particular (and teh RS200s obviously ).

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Godfrey back in his Fiesta, hope he has a better livery for it this time!

I wonder why he's switched to the Fiesta? Seems an odd move unless the Mitsubishi has been sold? As far as the livery goes - he'd struggle to make it any worse!

[SnoodyMcFlude]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

I wonder why he's switched to the Fiesta? Seems an odd move unless the Mitsubishi has been sold? As far as the livery goes - he'd struggle to make it any worse!

Might he have used the engine out of the Mitsubishi to lend out to one of his customers (e.g the ones who had failures)?

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Retro is looking like the best class now - there's some great cars in there, looking forward to seeing the Stratos and Renault 5 in particular (and teh RS200s obviously ).

I know it's not original, but I think that Stratos is seriously cool. The Renault 5 looks really clean in the pictures I have seen, so I am looking forward to seeing that on track.

Originally Posted by BertMk2

As far as the livery goes - he'd struggle to make it any worse!

Ha, I hope Godfrey doesn't accept your challenge there! I like the look of the Mk.6 Fiesta and I rather liked the original white/blue livery, but those that have followed haven't been at all flattering to the car.

I assume the Mitsubishi is owned by Spencer Sport, so is Godfrey hiring it for each round? Maybe he needs to save a few quid to fund the warranty engine for Block...

[chunder]

Spencer sport have built several of these cars, quite a few are used in rallying, so I doubt they use Coswoth engines, I think it is probably Evo based.

the engine in Block'as car also blew last week so he is no doubt busy. Maybe Spencer can't afford to attend Lydden or are rallying somewhere.

For me retro is OK, but they need to stop messing about now, stop all this false racing, especially with the supercars, either let them race on their own or let them get away, I want to see them ALL driven hard not just one or two.

From what I hear there are numerous cars in build, but they never seem to get them all together!

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by chunder

Spencer sport have built several of these cars, quite a few are used in rallying, so I doubt they use Coswoth engines, I think it is probably Evo based.

Not sure on the specifics of the engine. I actually assumed (perhaps wrongly) that it was one built utilizing the World Championship "custom" engine regulations (which are permitted in the British Championship), so possibly using a YB block.

(I know Godfrey has previously worked with Japanese engines in the past and the results haven't been great, which is why I'd be surprised if the engine in the Mirage was Mitsubishi based)

Originally Posted by chunder

From what I hear there are numerous cars in build, but they never seem to get them all together!

Yeah, the Hopkins RS200 immediately springs to mind: sure that was supposed to be on track well over a year ago!

[SnoodyMcFlude]

Originally Posted by chunder

For me retro is OK, but they need to stop messing about now, stop all this false racing, especially with the supercars, either let them race on their own or let them get away, I want to see them ALL driven hard not just one or two.

I enjoyed the last world round at Lydden where they decided to let them race and it properly kicked off. I assume the organisers got scared or a dressing down from the MSA/FIA because the rest of the weekend it seemed they were under strict orders to take it easy

[chunder]

It might be somethng to do with rules agreed.

the cars are not homologated are they, so might only be allowed to be demonstrated, but it never seems to stop Ray or Barry in the 911, so not sure.

I had a look at Godfrey;s motor and it was not Ford, might be block of course, but I think it's their car.

Not sure what the grint car was, is this the same car?

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by chunder

Not sure what the grint car was, is this the same car?

Same car, though I don't think it was running a JGE engine then.

[RichP]

I read somewhere that Spencer Sport and Julian has an agreement last year for the development of the car/ engine. That hasn’t carried over to 2019. Also someone else is interested in using the car, hence I presume Julian using his Fiesta.
Last year a few other drivers tested the car and liked it (OOD was particularly impressed from memory, maybe he has hired it!).

[tbtstt]

Uploaded a few pictures from Silverstone, few favourites...











...and a few more here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/229616...57706323655751

For those of you who are interested.

[tbtstt]

Jake Harris, Ollie O'Donovan and Derek Tohill all on the entry for Lydden now, so that improves the Supercar numbers somewhat.

McGarry back in Super National as well.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Jake Harris, Ollie O'Donovan and Derek Tohill all on the entry for Lydden now, so that improves the Supercar numbers somewhat.

McGarry back in Super National as well.

That's helped the numbers a bit. The weather is looking like it's going to be ok this year as well - looking forward to this

[tbtstt]

According to a post on the Retro Rallycross page on Facebook, Liam Doran will be driving an RS200 at Lydden on Monday. I am hoping this means we will get to see a very sideways RS200!

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

According to a post on the Retro Rallycross page on Facebook, Liam Doran will be driving an RS200 at Lydden on Monday. I am hoping this means we will get to see a very sideways RS200!

Whilst seeing another RS200 in action is a good thing - I'd put money on it not being in one piece by the end of the day

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Whilst seeing another RS200 in action is a good thing - I'd put money on it not being in one piece by the end of the day

Epic slides or massive Group B pile up? (or a combination of the two) Place your bets now!

Hopefully it will last long enough to get a decent photo of it. Jon Bryant (Snappy Racers) got an incredible picture of Pat (in the Hydrex liveried RS200) at one of the Winter rallycross events around a decade ago and I've wanted to get a similar sideways shot since.

[S griffin]

Why not both? It’s too unpredictable

Hopefully we will have a good event and plenty of good photos too

[chunder]

I would juts predict that like his Dad's, it won't work properly most of the the time!

[S griffin]

I think that could be an omen, but we’ll see

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Epic slides or massive Group B pile up? (or a combination of the two) Place your bets now!

He usually bins the RS200 at some point during the day - I'd expect him to be at the front of the retro field whilst the car lasts though.

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Hopefully it will last long enough to get a decent photo of it. Jon Bryant (Snappy Racers) got an incredible picture of Pat (in the Hydrex liveried RS200) at one of the Winter rallycross events around a decade ago and I've wanted to get a similar sideways shot since.

Jon is annoyingly good isn't he? I've learned a lot from studying his work (and where he stands - if he's stood at a particular corner that's where the accident will be).