[WEC] New rules. New manufacturers. The 2021 and beyond positivity thread!

[knighty]

Crikey feels like years since I have posted on here.....

Great news from Audi and Porsche. So much for VW only developing electric motorsport when their sister companies AUDI and Porsche have just thrown caution to the wind and will start developing 650bhp internal combustion engines again 🤣🤣🤣

I read somewhere Audi may use their I4 DTM engine.....which i don't believe at all, as it will be too flimsy. They will need some form of V engine to have respectable torsional stiffness.

I heard Porsche is looking at using a Road car based V8

Do the LMDH regs stipulate the base engine needs to be of road car origins?.....all new to me!!!

[joeb]

Originally Posted by knighty

Do the LMDH regs stipulate the base engine needs to be of road car origins?.....all new to me!!!

Well, welcome back to posting!


as far as your question goes, i'm not sure. It wasn't required in DPi, and in many ways the LMDh regs are an evolution of those in DPi. Personally, I would like to see the least amount of confinement in the engine category since the chassis is being restricted.

[Rf1 Fan]

Autohebdo says that Ferrari could announce something about lmdh rather sooner than later.

[knighty]

Yeah i heard Ferrari made a request to build their own LMDH monocoque, which im hoping the ACO refused, as Ferrari have a lot of ex-F1 staff which they need to keep busy once the 2021 F1 budget cap comes into play.

Once Ferrari commit to LMDH im pretty sure McLaren will do the same.

[knighty]

Originally Posted by joeb

Well, welcome back to posting!


as far as your question goes, i'm not sure. It wasn't required in DPi, and in many ways the LMDh regs are an evolution of those in DPi. Personally, I would like to see the least amount of confinement in the engine category since the chassis is being restricted.

hi Joeb, nice to talk again. Also I guess what Glikenhaus have done with Pipo motors via the LMH route is very bespoke, no way that will ever be made in volume.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by truebeliever

LMDH will very quickly become as LMP1 did, a spending formula. Where no privateer can compete with the factory teams. So please tell me where this is the wonderful ''new future of prototype racing? It's the same old with a new name, no more.

More like same old DPi. I bet some manufacturers won't even have full factory teams.

Originally Posted by knighty

Do the LMDH regs stipulate the base engine needs to be of road car origins?.....all new to me!!!

No. But apparently that's a possible route, since many mentioned it. Isn't the Mazda DPi 2.0 based on a road car block like it used to be in the Lola?

Originally Posted by Rf1 Fan

Autohebdo says that Ferrari could announce something about lmdh rather sooner than later.

I wish they'd announce something like (read in bad Italian accent) "What is this LMDh nonsense? We are coming with our bellisima SF90 LMH in 2022!"

[brownninja97]

Man what weird times, I first found this forum nearly a decade ago when the porsche 919 was announced and just when I decide to come back again the next top flight porsche gets announced.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by brownninja97

Man what weird times, I first found this forum nearly a decade ago when the porsche 919 was announced and just when I decide to come back again the next top flight porsche gets announced.

You should come back more often!

[chernaudi]

And hopefully with Audi and Porsche on board Multimatic can design the LMP car they want rather than having to deal with the outdated and outmodeled ideas that Riley forced on them for the Mk30/Mazda DPI. That car didn't even use Multimatic shocks until Riley moved on and the suspension on the Ford GT road and race cars (which Multimatic designed and built with Ford) was more advanced.

I mean, torsion bar springs have been on LMP cars since the Bentley GTPs and were very widely copied to the point where aside from the Mazda DPI (the Riley Mk30 LMP2 is dead, sadly) the front suspension on everyone's LMPs used them (and the Jaguar XJR-14 and the derived Mazda MXR-01 and Joest/TWR Porsche WSC used them up front if you want to go back even further). I know the main reason for using torsion bars is packaging, as guess what a coil spring basically is? A torsion bar wound in a coil! But packaging is still packaging.

Now maybe we can see what Multimatic can do if Audi and Porsche let them loose with a clean slate.

[Pandamasque]

Interestingly, aero-wise there a lot of Lola DNA still visible in that Mazda/Multimatic, if you look at the wheel arch treatment, the roof line and the (hidden) nosecone. Which makes it the least "trendy" but by miles the prettiest (or the least ugly) current P2 chassis.
Multimatic own the Lola IP, don't forget.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by knighty

hi Joeb, nice to talk again. Also I guess what Glikenhaus have done with Pipo motors via the LMH route is very bespoke, no way that will ever be made in volume.

That is an interesting point about engine manufacturing volumes. The team will have a couple of cars on the grid next season so I'd assume they need spare motors, so at least 4 will have to be built. Glick seems pretty certain of being able to sell cars at a price point, not sure if that includes spares and such.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by joeb

That is an interesting point about engine manufacturing volumes. The team will have a couple of cars on the grid next season so I'd assume they need spare motors, so at least 4 will have to be built. Glick seems pretty certain of being able to sell cars at a price point, not sure if that includes spares and such.

It would be wonderful is some LMH cars couple compete with LMDh price-wise. And, frankly, in a what is essentially a BoP formula, they should.

[chernaudi]

Marshall Pruett at Racer Mag does say that's the reason why Audi and Porsche are favoring LMDH, basically having the ability to sell customer cars are a reasonable price point and maybe make a profit and at least simplify logistics.

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by joeb

That is an interesting point about engine manufacturing volumes. The team will have a couple of cars on the grid next season so I'd assume they need spare motors, so at least 4 will have to be built. Glick seems pretty certain of being able to sell cars at a price point, not sure if that includes spares and such.

Firstly we can produce as many LMH engines as desired without issue.
Secondly we will offer and LMDh version of our engine for a very reasonable price.
We will also also offer an Evo'd 007 with a FWD hybrid system.
Lets talk price.
LMDh
1.2mm$ rolling chassis
350K$ for spec RWD 40 HP system. 350K$ for 40 HP??????
450K$ for semi body kit.
Missing bespoke body kits to make an Oraca look like a "Porsche" $$ ??
Aero study on bespoke body parts $$?
Engine$$?
Porsche is using an SUV? based V8? Cost??
This turns an Oraca/etc. into a Porsche?
Our LMH with an engine is 2.3MM e and it's state of the art.
Our spares will cost less than LMh spares.
Our running costs will be less.
Our engine will likely go 48H in endurance tune.
The older I get the less I understand...

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by Napolis

Secondly we will offer and LMDh version of our engine for a very reasonable price.

...to be raced as a Glickenhaus LMDh or...?

[GT6]

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

...to be raced as a Glickenhaus LMDh or...?

No we're not building LMDh's. This would be for privateers who want to use our engine in an LMDh that would be much less expensive than an IMSA engine with a spec 350K$ 40HP unit.
Early next year we'll be speaking with IMSA.
One way or another we will sort this situation.
I am amazed that we are building a top class LMH from the ground up including commissioning a bespoke engine while several major manufacturers are putting their engines in another manufacturer's chassis, using another manufacturer's 40 HP spec hybrid system and adding branding touches to another manufacturer's body "spline".
Strange days.

[chernaudi]

I know some of this discussion is a better fit in the new rules thread, but I can see why Audi might not opt for the DTM engine. You also have to remember that the similar engines used in Super GT/JGTC are also sprint optimized (I don't think they've done any 1000km races with them), but then again, that depends on specified engine life before changes or major maintenance.

Audi, however, do have one of the last engines that Ulrich Baretzky designed before he retired from Audi Sport. Remember, Audi Sport were looking at forsaking TDI racing engines running a twin turbo gasoline V6 in an evolution of the R18 before the LMP1 project got shelved.

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I know some of this discussion is a better fit in the new rules thread, but I can see why Audi might not opt for the DTM engine. You also have to remember that the similar engines used in Super GT/JGTC are also sprint optimized (I don't think they've done any 1000km races with them), but then again, that depends on specified engine life before changes or major maintenance.

Audi, however, do have one of the last engines that Ulrich Baretzky designed before he retired from Audi Sport. Remember, Audi Sport were looking at forsaking TDI racing engines running a twin turbo gasoline V6 in an evolution of the R18 before the LMP1 project got shelved.

As the rules have reduced needed HP to appease IMSA an ICE engine that makes 630PH in endurance tune is easy. An Audi GT3 engine could do it. Existing DPI engines can. With a spec 40 HP IMSA hybrid they can reach the 670HP limit.

[Pandamasque]

But using a V10 would be way too exciting for a manufacturer who put product placement in 50 Shades of Gray, perhaps to celebrate its production model colour palette as well as most of its contemporary racing liveries.

For those, who think I'm joking:
It was a natural fit for Audi to be a part of 'Fifty Shades of Grey'
- Loren Angelo, Director of Marketing for Audi of America

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

But using a V10 would be way too exciting for a manufacturer who put product placement in 50 Shades of Gray, perhaps to celebrate its production model colour palette as well as most of its contemporary racing liveries.

For those, who think I'm joking:
It was a natural fit for Audi to be a part of 'Fifty Shades of Grey'
- Loren Angelo, Director of Marketing for Audi of America

A bit sad that...

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Napolis

Firstly we can produce as many LMH engines as desired without issue.
Secondly we will offer and LMDh version of our engine for a very reasonable price.
We will also also offer an Evo'd 007 with a FWD hybrid system.
Lets talk price.
LMDh
1.2mm$ rolling chassis
350K$ for spec RWD 40 HP system. 350K$ for 40 HP??????
450K$ for semi body kit.
Missing bespoke body kits to make an Oraca look like a "Porsche" $$ ??
Aero study on bespoke body parts $$?
Engine$$?
Porsche is using an SUV? based V8? Cost??
This turns an Oraca/etc. into a Porsche?
Our LMH with an engine is 2.3MM e and it's state of the art.
Our spares will cost less than LMh spares.
Our running costs will be less.
Our engine will likely go 48H in endurance tune.
The older I get the less I understand...

Thanks, that is exactly the info I was looking for!

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by joeb

Thanks, that is exactly the info I was looking for!

It seems the LMDh hybrid is a rental at 350k
Not sure if that is annual lease cost.
Those units will need service/rebuilds.

[Napolis]

It is strange days when a mico company like ours designs, engineers, commissions and builds every part of a Top Class Le Mans Car and some gigantic manufacturers stick their engine into a spec rolling chassis and call it one of theirs. Le Mans is Holy Ground. Borrowing from Matthew 16:18: It's where we'll build our church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against us. We are tiny. The odds are against us but those who think we'll not punch above our weight are making a mistake.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Napolis

It is strange days when a mico company like ours designs, engineers, commissions and builds every part of a Top Class Le Mans Car and some gigantic manufacturers stick their engine into a spec rolling chassis and call it one of theirs. Le Mans is Holy Ground. Borrowing from Matthew 16:18: It's where we'll build our church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against us. We are tiny. The odds are against us but those who think we'll not punch above our weight are making a mistake.

Looking awesome!
I do not believe that there are anyone here on this forum who is not rooting and believing in you!