Indian Grand Prix - Jaypee Group Circuit

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by bella

well if you imagine india was say, in the middle of the european countries, perhaps somewhere like switzerland, you would say yes, it's a smart place to be because people from the surrounding countries will travel in and stay in the local area.

sadly it's not, it's in a generally poorer area of the world where an awful lot of people live in conditions europeans wouldn't allow their pets to live in. bernie or whoever thinking that the general fans can afford to do the same from surrounding countries is just daft. the vips with the money can afford to go elsewhere with more prestige or better facilities. it's the same arrogance involved with the organisation of big sporting events like the world cup, commonwealth games and olympic games.

that said, it's important to branch out, encourage tourism and show the world that these places are open for business and available for everyone, not just the gap year backpackers. i'm just not sure overpriveleged sporting events are the way to do that.

I understand what you are saying but the India/Switzerland comparison doesn't work. Switzerland is a Western democratic country surrounded by likwise nations, India isn't. Yes, India has emerged as a global economic and nuclear power and I think like many of countries that are emerging, see some of the trappings of the West as important, such as F1 GPs but for all the wrong reasons, namely a status symbol and this is not helped by Bernie cultivating these aspirations with the offering of GPs to anyone who is willing to cough up; it's bad for the sport as it sends the wrong message.

If Bernie is so determined to promote F1 globaly, he should start by reinstituting the French GP; after all this is where the sport started.

[bella]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I understand what you are saying but the India/Switzerland comparison doesn't work

you missed my point. they're supposed to be chalk and cheese. in europe (i don't buy the "democratic" definition. the whole of the west is anything but if you think about the number of people who choose to exercise their vote. anyway) we have freedom of movement etc. that is why a race will work. in countries where travelling is either a situational impossibility or financially ridiculous it won't.

my point is that the organisers/bernie clearly don't recognise that.

[Wims]

India is also a democratic nation

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by bella

you missed my point. they're supposed to be chalk and cheese. in europe (i don't buy the "democratic" definition. the whole of the west is anything but if you think about the number of people who choose to exercise their vote. anyway) we have freedom of movement etc. that is why a race will work. in countries where travelling is either a situational impossibility or financially ridiculous it won't.

my point is that the organisers/bernie clearly don't recognise that.

Whether one chooses to vote or not is part of the democratic process; freedom of choice, though I believe it's compulsory to vote in Australia.

I got your point but Bernie couldn't care less. F1 has purely become an excercise in control, with the granting and taking away of races as it suits. Look at what happened to Donnington. Bernie took the GP away from Silverstone because they wouldn't play ball. At the time everyone in the motoracing business said Donnington would never be ready and sadly as we all know the tracks still a mess, Silverstone still has the race.

[OZ_HCR32]

Well i lived and worked in India for two years. They will run a GP, they will probably sell a fair few tickets with all the cashed up crowd loving anything that allows them to flaunt their status in society. But, the travel, accomodation, beggers and crime with pick pockets etc will mean what few people decide to travel to the GP from Europe of other parts of Asia will most likely have a miserable time....they probably know that and probably wont attend.

Bernie is going there because its a big market for sponsors. But frankly, I am tired of watching huge amounts of money being thrown at India and watching it being squandered and lining the pockets of corrupt business/govt folk.

Seems odd that a country that receives so much from developed countries in the form of aid can somehow find the people to spend hundreds of millions on a GP circuit and race

[RF_Racer]

Originally Posted by jab

This race has been delayed until 2011 but they've finally got round to revealing the design of the circuit holding the race, the Jaypee Group Circuit in Greater Noida



Here for masterplan - run-off areas suggest clockwise, whilst the pit straight is not the one shown on the Wiki diagram above

Looks a bit like a warped edit of new Kyalami. Doesn't strike as "ye gods that's awful" but at the same time, that's a lot of hairpins and heavy braking. Could be reasonably good

I was gonna say its kyalami inspired .. and looks almost 90% like it.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by OZ_HCR32

Well i lived and worked in India for two years. They will run a GP, they will probably sell a fair few tickets with all the cashed up crowd loving anything that allows them to flaunt their status in society. But, the travel, accomodation, beggers and crime with pick pockets etc will mean what few people decide to travel to the GP from Europe of other parts of Asia will most likely have a miserable time....they probably know that and probably wont attend.

Bernie is going there because its a big market for sponsors. But frankly, I am tired of watching huge amounts of money being thrown at India and watching it being squandered and lining the pockets of corrupt business/govt folk.

Seems odd that a country that receives so much from developed countries in the form of aid can somehow find the people to spend hundreds of millions on a GP circuit and race

I don't think it's odd at all. Hosting a GP these days seems to be about international prestige and nothing to do with racing and if it can be paid for with someone elses money so much the better.

[TrapezeArtist]

There is a crucial difference between the Commonwealth Games and the Indian GP: the Commonwealth Games hasn't got Bernie. For all his faults (don't get me started!) I think we can safely assume that he will bang enough heads to ensure that everything is done right.

[Tall Chris]

It looks like things are taking shape from the feature on the qualifying today, just a couple of drainage issues!
Don't think that Karun will be joining Kimi in the WRC any time soon though!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

There is a crucial difference between the Commonwealth Games and the Indian GP: the Commonwealth Games hasn't got Bernie. For all his faults (don't get me started!) I think we can safely assume that he will bang enough heads to ensure that everything is done right.

He certainly failed to do that when he took the GP away from Silverstone and gave it to Donnington. When it transpired Donnington wasn't going to be ready on time, which many had predicted from the start, he conveniently didn't mention he had orchestrated the whole thing and instead of eating any humble pie, the onus was now on Silverstone to now deliver the race, the very thing he had initially had taken away from them, or there would be no British GP; talk about duplicity.

[TrapezeArtist]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

He certainly failed to do that when he took the GP away from Silverstone and gave it to Donnington. When it transpired Donnington wasn't going to be ready on time, which many had predicted from the start, he conveniently didn't mention he had orchestrated the whole thing and instead of eating any humble pie, the onus was now on Silverstone to now deliver the race, the very thing he had initially had taken away from them, or there would be no British GP; talk about duplicity.

I didn't say he isn't duplicitous (nor a lot of other uncomplimentary things). But the British GP happened, and I think the Indian GP will happen too.

His comment regarding Korea in the BBC interview today was interesting. I don't believe for one moment that he is sitting back and blindly accepting the assurances of the organisers. Behind the scenes I feel safe in the certainty that he is creating hell.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

I didn't say he isn't duplicitous (nor a lot of other uncomplimentary things). But the British GP happened, and I think the Indian GP will happen too.

His comment regarding Korea in the BBC interview today was interesting. I don't believe for one moment that he is sitting back and blindly accepting the assurances of the organisers. Behind the scenes I feel safe in the certainty that he is creating hell.

Has he already taken the fee for both the Korean and Indian GPs?

[jab]

I think the important thing to remember with the Indian circuit is that it is being built by Tilke GmbH, as opposed to South Jeolla which is being built by local contractors, which is probably why they're struggling