[Team] Sauber F1 in trouble

[321Go]

Some alarming news might be ahead. Lots of talk that this could be Sauber F1's final year in F1. Hope it isn't the case, and they can continue on next year. Although, it will only get harder financially for next years regulations, so this might well be the end of Sauber.

[Sodemo]

I'd have thought Williams aren't far off being in the same boat...?

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I'd have thought Williams aren't far off being in the same boat...?

Possibly... but Williams have other revenue streams outside of F1. The question of course is whether a loss making F1 division should be subsidised... a particularly pertinent question given the fact Williams are a quoted company these days.

[Paradise City]

Williams makes a financial profit as a company.

[321Go]

Peter Sauber in an interview on Swiss TV: "There is really no breathing room ... the situation is really uncomfortable and embarrassing,
"Time is our biggest problem. We are getting short of money to drive."

Hanspeter Brack, Sauber F1's Head Of Media Communications: "Sauber has been in Formula One for more than 20 years.
"We will overcome this difficult situation, and we will be there in 2014."


That's good news indeed. But will Sauber F1 as we currently know it, still be the same Sauber F1 in 2014? Paddock talk suggests they could well be a Russian owned team, and partnered with an "Asian" manufacturer in 2014!??

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Williams makes a financial profit as a company.

It did for y/e 31.12.2011 but it made a £4.6M loss for this past y/e 31.12.2012.

2012 results

[321Go]

http://www.sauberf1team.com/en/seaso...m-staatlich-1/





A Russian driver will most likely replace Hulkenberg.

[littleman]

Sport, and Motorsport in particular,is a very effective way of shifting vast amounts of money.Owning a football team is another good method - why do you think so many billionaire Russian's are now in the game?

The reason is simple - it is impossible to accurately value what the money has been spent on and it can all be off-set against tax too.

For example,as headline sponsor of say Sauber should you be paying £50m or £500m? Who knows!

Again, should you have paid £50m for Fernando Torres or £10m - same answer.

If you want to move "excess" cash or corporate profits around, sport is the place to be!

[crossfades]

Twitter feed from @f1enigma
I think the rumor/story of the day comes from Omnicorse.it: Sauber sold to SMP Bank for 135mEuros with Nicolas Todt been team principal

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by 321Go

[URL]


A Russian driver will most likely replace Hulkenberg.

Well, it doesn't actually say that.

But more about that, here.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108789

[321Go]

Originally Posted by crossfades

Twitter feed from @f1enigma
I think the rumor/story of the day comes from Omnicorse.it: Sauber sold to SMP Bank for 135mEuros with Nicolas Todt been team principal

... umm.. not likely.

[bella]

sirotkin is nowhere near ready for f1, so that's got the potential to go horribly wrong. their best bet is to bring back the awkward, but essentially quick petrov until sirotkin has learnt what he needs to do to be a f1 driver. right now he's struggling in fr3.5.

it's good that the money has come in, but it's with totally the wrong driver.

[Marbot]

Another pay driver. That's good.

[bella]

the only guys who aren't pay drivers are the ones who got into f1 before the economic downturn. everyone else brings their own sponsors, wherever that cash may come from.

[Marbot]

Wouldn't it be better for F1 if it were not so ridiculously expensive to compete in in the first place, rather than having the likes of Gutierrez always looking like he's on the verge of having a huge accident?

F1 needs to cut overall costs and it needed to have done that, yesterday.

Time and time again we heard Monisha Kaltenborn going on about how F1 needed to reduce costs and needing to reduce them fast, but it's all fallen on deaf ears because of the self interests of other teams. But those same deaf ears won't ever be to blame for the loss of life of a driver that came into F1 far too early because some billionaire sees it has another opportunity to wipe off a few more million dollars of his or her tax bill.

Rant over, for now.

[bella]

how exactly do you think people get drives outside of f1? they bring their own sponsors, whoever that might be, to pay the bills. why is it so wrong that f1 operates in a similar way?

or, to turn it round, if you're a large company that sponsors a young driver for whatever reason, why is it so wrong to want to go into f1 with that driver rather than sponsor a stranger?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by bella

how exactly do you think people get drives outside of f1? they bring their own sponsors, whoever that might be, to pay the bills. why is it so wrong that f1 operates in a similar way?

or, to turn it round, if you're a large company that sponsors a young driver for whatever reason, why is it so wrong to want to go into f1 with that driver rather than sponsor a stranger?

Are we getting the very best drivers in F1, or are we getting the very best drivers in F1 who fit the current marketing strategy opportunities of X or Y multi-national conglomorate/money laundering operation?

I would be all for regulations that wouldn't need the likes of Chilton running around at the rear of the field because daddy's paying for it and not because Chilton looks like the best thing since sliced bread.

That's pretty much all I need to say with regard to driver threads.

[Razzzor]

Good god, they're putting an 17yo into the car who only started racing karts 5 years ago. Even Sirotkin himself should know it's too early.

My guess is Petrov WILL be back next year then, as well. Russian sponsors will want 2 Russian drivers.

[BSchneiderFan]

Autosport suggested Sirotkin was acquitting himself rather well in Formula Renault 3.5, rather than "struggling".

[bella]

russian sponsors that are connected directly to sirotkin by virtue of his old man being the boss. on that basis, and the lack of generosity towards other russian drivers so far i don't think the second driver will be russian. if smp had invested heavily in the team it would be different. sirotkin jnr probably doesn't have much say in what he does with his racing career. i presume those decisions are handled by sirotkin snr. you can't ruin a racing career when there's someone happy to take your money, as we've seen with maldonado over the past few years.

marbot: the problem is that the general perception of f1 is that it's for the very best drivers. well, the very best racers or the very best drivers aren't necessarily the very best f1 drivers, so it's not that clear cut anyway. they're a multiskilled employee as much as any of the other heads of departments in a f1 team.

he is struggling in 3.5 if he's expected to be in f1 next year. he should be competing at the level of magnussen and vandoorne, but he isn't. his best performances have come at monza, where there's not a great deal of "technical" driver skill. you would expect that a driver with the natural flair and ability to be in f1 before he can legally drive a road car in many countries would be able to demonstrate a natural feel for the high cornering speeds and close nature of the field in fr3.5. there's little difference between the teams in practice - the cars are all set up very similarly indeed.

imo, anyway. except the bit about the car setups. that's true.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Wouldn't it be better for F1 if it were not so ridiculously expensive to compete in in the first place, rather than having the likes of Gutierrez always looking like he's on the verge of having a huge accident?

F1 needs to cut overall costs and it needed to have done that, yesterday.

Time and time again we heard Monisha Kaltenborn going on about how F1 needed to reduce costs and needing to reduce them fast, but it's all fallen on deaf ears because of the self interests of other teams. But those same deaf ears won't ever be to blame for the loss of life of a driver that came into F1 far too early because some billionaire sees it has another opportunity to wipe off a few more million dollars of his or her tax bill.

Rant over, for now.

This is exactly the problem. There is no need for F1 to cost as much as it does. Vast amounts of money are spent on socially useless 'R+D' that nobody other than Gary Anderson and his dog can understand. The grid is slowly being filled by second rate pay drivers while the real talent is ending up in GT racing. If that's the way it has to be, so be it, but F1 will need to loose the accolade of being the series with the world's best drivers... because it isn't.

[bella]

well quite, who says the worlds best drivers actually want to be f1 drivers any more?

perhaps there's your problem.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by bella

how exactly do you think people get drives outside of f1? they bring their own sponsors, whoever that might be, to pay the bills. why is it so wrong that f1 operates in a similar way?

or, to turn it round, if you're a large company that sponsors a young driver for whatever reason, why is it so wrong to want to go into f1 with that driver rather than sponsor a stranger?

But, F1 should be the pinnacle of motorsport, what is the use of spending zillions per year to find another tenth of a second in the car if the driver is half a second lap slower!

You can't buy a place in the Arsenal team no matter how rich or well connected your relatives are, F1 should be the same. No problem with billionaires wanting to sponsor teams or make investments in teams, but they should still pick the best drivers.

The bigger issue is lack of real sponsors, where are the big brands lining to associate themselves with the world's biggest global sport or whatever it calls itself these days.

If you strip out the connected/B2B deals, self sponsored cars and state supported drivers the cars would be empty!

So in essence we have an F1 series that has a business model which means any 'real' promoters can barely afford to hold the races and some of the teams can barely afford to take part...

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

You can't buy a place in the Arsenal team no matter how rich or well connected your relatives are, F1 should be the same.

Football [Soccer] is a professional sport, but it's still a sport. Formula One is commercial entertainment. It's not a sport.

[bella]

yeah i was about to say, i genuinely don't believe f1 is a sport any more. it's a cluster of businesses competing in a really specific little market that lasts for 90 minutes every few sundays

i don't think drivers are sportsmen either. athletes in many if not all cases, but not sportsmen.