|
Site Partners: | Veloce Books | OldRacingCars.com |
23 Sep 2003, 10:45 (Ref:1570230) | #51 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 250
|
Quote:
Indeed, it seems too much of a coincidence, doesn't it? Talk about incredible timing too, with Peter's posting... I'll continue to try and track down Johnstone, although I suspect Zaborowski might be a tad more difficult... Cheers Michael |
|||
|
23 Sep 2003, 18:14 (Ref:1570231) | #52 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 92
|
Michael
I just reed on an other forum that Jean Blaton was owner of the T280 Bonnier / Switzerland . If thats right what that for a good news to follow the story but I think the man make a mistake . In the end of 2000 Jean Bla- ton "BEURLYS" sold in bid gallery LE POULAIN in Paris an T282 car ( sn T282/6 ) builded in 1973 . Maybe the man confuse the cars ? Or did J Blaton owned two cars ? nice evenning Alain |
||
|
25 Sep 2003, 12:38 (Ref:1570232) | #53 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 250
|
Quote:
Which forum was this - an English or French one? I don't see how this could be possible, unless it was the surviving 72 Le Mans car that Blaton bought, maybe after Rouveyran died, or after it had finished racing in 75/76 (e.g. Degoumois/Belin, Cuynet/Belin etc.)? On another forum, a friend of mine mentioned that he remembered having seen what he was told was one of the 'Swiss Cheese' Lolas being prepared by Willie Widar in Belgium, and he thought it might then have gone to Jean Blaton. Certainly he remembered that it was yellow but I don't know if he was sure that it was a T280 or not. I guess that it is likely to be a T282 as you said, particularly if this is what Blaton sold a few years ago. I know someone who knows Blaton, so I guess it might be worth trying to find out for sure? Cheers Michael |
|||
|
2 Oct 2003, 11:13 (Ref:1570233) | #54 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,026
|
Slightly OT, but what about the 1975 Gp6 Lolas, the T380 and T390. Are any still left ?
I know de Cadenet had a T380 that raced at Le Mans in 75 & 76, before it got transformed into the "de Cadenet LM". I recall Edwards and Martin Raymond had T390s in '75, whatever became of them. |
||
|
2 Oct 2003, 12:47 (Ref:1570234) | #55 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 250
|
Quote:
Yes, that's a good point. I'm afraid I'm not very familiar with these cars - was the T380 a 3-litre and the T390 a 2-litre? The original Duckhams Special campaigned by Alain de Cadenet and Chris Craft was also in some way Lola-derived, IIRC, although it used some running gear from a Brabham BT33. Also, Gordon Murray was involved somehow as the designer... Michael |
|||
|
2 Oct 2003, 13:04 (Ref:1570235) | #56 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 652
|
Dan,
There weren't a lot of T390s built, estimates are between 2 and 5! I certainly haven't seen any for years. de Cadenet's 75-77 T380 was sold for 1978, and that was the car that Martin Raymond drove occasionally in Fisons colours. Raymond did drive a T390, at Spa in 1975 (although Autosport called it a T294), but after struggling with it at Silverstone and this Spa race, it seems he reverted to his trusty Chevron. I think the T390 was generally dumped by it's users. The collapse of the European 2-litre championship after 2 races in 1975 didn't help sales, I suppose. Apaprt from de Cadenet's T380, the only other one I knew about was a Jolly Club chassis (quoted as HU2 by Autosport) used at the 1975 Nurburgring 1000ks. |
||
|
3 Oct 2003, 16:37 (Ref:1570236) | #57 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,026
|
Jeremy/Michael
Re the 75 Lolas, I think you're right they seemed to be dumped fairly early. I think a chap called Richard Bond raced presumably the ex de Cad DFV car in British 1000Ks races in the late 70s, when Gp6 were allowed to enter Gp5 races, was John Cooper also involved here? The later De Cadenet car raced in these aswell occasionally IIRC. Who built that. I think a German called Roland Binder raced one of the 2 litres in Germany/Interseries later in the 70s, or am I getting this car mixed up with the F2 T450 he also had, another 70s Lola 'cock-up' !! Dan |
||
|
3 Oct 2003, 17:05 (Ref:1570237) | #58 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 652
|
Bond only drive the 75-76 Lola once or twice, as far as my records tell me, in an Interserie race, although he would ghave raced it at LM in 1977, if it had qualified.
The 77 de Cadenet was raced by John Cooper/Pete Lovett in 78/79, and by Richard Jones & Nick Faure in 1980 Binder did indeed race a T390, during 1979-80. Since it wasn't great when it was new, he was a hero (or crazy?)to be wrestling with one 4-5 years later! |
||
|
6 Oct 2003, 12:26 (Ref:1570238) | #59 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,026
|
Jeremy
Agreed re Roland Binder, and twice so for taking on a T450, though he did that in the year when it should have been at its best (!)76. I presume it was an ex-ATS car. I also remember Adrian Russell had one of these things, ex-Mallock I think. |
||
|
6 Oct 2003, 13:18 (Ref:1570239) | #60 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,133
|
[
The 77 de Cadenet was raced by John Cooper/Pete Lovett in 78/79, and by Richard Jones & Nick Faure in 1980 There is a member on this fourm called GFM who may be able to help. He was a driver on the team that run a De Cadenet. |
||
|
21 Oct 2003, 00:24 (Ref:1570240) | #61 | |
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 142
|
Hi.
I hope what I am just about to write here will help solve some people's questions about chassis number 03 of Lola T280. It was delivered to Noritake Takahara in Japan on 30th of March 1972 to be raced in the Grand Champion series at Fuji Speedway. He then took the championship and went to Kojima Engineering. It still remains in Japan (not at Kojima Engineering) in its original state. |
|
|
21 Oct 2003, 08:49 (Ref:1570241) | #62 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 652
|
Nice to have some concrete information, Thanks!
|
||
|
21 Oct 2003, 09:59 (Ref:1570242) | #63 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 250
|
Quote:
What I don't understand is why Takahara didn't use the car from the first round onwards! Was there some problem with it? It would be really nice to make contact with the current owners and share the information/pictures we have uncovered in the past few months - do you have this info. Perhaps you could send me a private message or email me on michael.oliver@oliverandcompany.co.uk if you didn't want to post this on the list. Many thanks for the information - very interesting! Michael Oliver |
|||
|
21 Oct 2003, 17:58 (Ref:1570243) | #64 | ||
Rookie
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 92
|
Whats for a nice and important info . Thanks Kojima _ ke007
French magasine SPORT AUTO telled in April 1972 that a third car was build , but not for Bonnier team .Maybe this car was destined to Von Wendt at first ? For myself the chassis # 3 was C Gaspar car ..... KOJIMA _ KE 007 ,please do you know where exactly stay now the car ? Was the car entered in other races after season 1972 ? best regards |
||
|
21 Oct 2003, 18:43 (Ref:1570244) | #65 | |
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 142
|
I am glad that the info I provided has helped. (^^)
The chassis number 03 is currently in our associates' garage in Japan. I do have acouple of photos but as I do not have the permission from the owner himself to publish them, I will not publish this time. It did race in the Grand Champion series in 1972 from round 2 to 5 driven by Noritake Takahara but it did not race at all in 1973 (Japanese Auto Technic magazine). As the Grand Champion race was only run at Fuji Speedway, the body was slightly modified to suit the very fast and flowing circuit configuration. Since then, it has always remained in Japan. Another interesting point is that, the bell housing of the T280 (chassis number 03) was used on Kojima KE007 and KE009 Formula One chassis. Best regards |
|
|
22 Oct 2003, 12:15 (Ref:1570245) | #66 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 250
|
Quote:
And you are 100% sure that the car is chassis 3? If this is correct, it means that the car driven by Carlos Gaspar in 1972 was chassis 4 not 3 as previously believed... Michael Oliver |
|||
|
22 Oct 2003, 21:56 (Ref:1570246) | #67 | |
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 142
|
The reason why Takahara did not use T280 for the first round is probaby because the car simply was not ready as all the Grand Champion cars do have to go through some modifications to suit the fast Fuji Speedway circuit.
I am sure it is the chassis number 03 unless Lola got it wrong and put the wrong chassis number plate on the car, which obviously is still stuck on the chassis on the lower left hand side of the passenger seat. It is even written on a book translated into Japanese that chassis number 03 was delivered to Noritake Takahara on 30th of March 1972 (probably the despatch date). |
|
|
23 Oct 2003, 09:54 (Ref:1570247) | #68 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 250
|
Quote:
I am surprised that, having had the car so long, Takahara didn't have it ready for the first round, as he would have had several months to adapt it to Fuji. I have some contact details for Mr Takahara, so maybe I should ask him about this to clear it up once and for all! I am sure you are right, as it is unlikely that the wrong chassis plate would have been put on the car. I hope I did not offend you in questioning you about this but I wanted to know that you were sure of your facts, as I have found through researching my Lotus books that the memory can play tricks over time and that photographic evidence is the only reliable witness You mention a book translated into Japanese - which one is this and do you know if it is available in English as well? Sounds like a book I should have read Thanks again Michael Oliver |
|||
|
23 Oct 2003, 12:30 (Ref:1570248) | #69 | |||
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 9,482
|
Re: Lola T280
Quote:
BTW, I'm very impressed by the contain of this thread ; do you intend to enter the car at Classic in 2004 ? We've a couple of passionate people here nearby Nantes rebuilding the Tecma which raced in 1975... hope to see it on the track too next July... Cheers ! Fab Sportscars forum mod |
|||
|
23 Oct 2003, 12:36 (Ref:1570249) | #70 | |
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 142
|
Michael Oliver
The first round of the Grand Champion series 1972 was "20th of March 1972", and the delivery date being "30th of March 1972" there was no way that Takahara could run the Lola T280 at the first race. He even had to rent out a McLaren M12 from Sakai Racing. I think you are getting mixed up with the "order date" and "delivery date". As Takahara does mention that he ordered the car, T280 chassis number 03, from Lola well before it was decided that the Grand Champion series will become an "Open Class" race from 1972 onwards. |
|
|
23 Oct 2003, 13:43 (Ref:1570250) | #71 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 250
|
Quote:
So he drove the McLaren M12 rented from Sakai Racing in Round 1 (20/3/72), finishing 2nd, then Round 2 (6/4/72) he finished 4th. He drove three rounds of the Grand Champion series in the Lola T280, again all at Mt Fuji Raceway. These were 3/9/72 (1st), 10/10/72 (1st) and 23/11/72 (1st). Thanks for putting me straight on that one! Jeremy: how come we didn't notice this before So we have the following: HU01 - Ecurie Bonnier (c. Jan 72) HU02 - Ecurie Bonnier (c. Jan 72) HU03 - Noritake Takahara (Mar 72) HU04 - Carlos Gaspar (c. Jun 72) HU01 goes to Rouveyran at end of 72 then ? (Willy Widar?) (Swedish guy Alain mentioned) HU02 was written off Le Mans 72 HU03 stays in Japan and is still there HU04 goes back to Ecurie Bonnier (hence ex-BIP references in race reports) then to Lord, then Zaborowski, Malcolm Johnstone, Brian & David Auger (hence reference to HU04), then Geoffrey Marsh/Marsh Plant and then ? (Rosso Bianco?) A few more things are falling into place... Michael Oliver |
|||
|
23 Oct 2003, 13:58 (Ref:1570251) | #72 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 652
|
Michael, we did notice! We just didn't know when Takahara ordered/actually got hold of the car - We knew round 2 was on June 4th, but he was in the M12, so we surmised that he actually took delivery in time for round 3 in September....
Your summary seems plausible to me. |
||
|
23 Oct 2003, 14:08 (Ref:1570252) | #73 | |||
Racer
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 250
|
Quote:
The dates on the results I looked at were so far across the page that I completely missed them initially and when I did find them I only looked up the dates of the three rounds I knew Takahara had driven the T280 in Do you know anything about this book that Kojima_KE007 mentions? Michael |
|||
|
23 Oct 2003, 14:32 (Ref:1570253) | #74 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 652
|
In one of the e-mails, I did query whether round 2 was on 4/6 or 6/4, when I mentioned those numbers on a photo of Takhara's Lola...Presume that was a event preview photo.
The book is news to me, though it would be useful to know what other good information it contains. |
||
|
23 Oct 2003, 14:50 (Ref:1570254) | #75 | |
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 142
|
Sorry, I forgot to give you the details of the book that I mentioned before.
The book is titled "Cooper, Lola, Elva" and is "thought" to be a direct translation of an English text book. Unfortunately I do not have the book right in front of me at the moment, but will give you more details as soon as I can (early next week the earliest). |
|
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Lola T 97/30 | ss_collins | The Chassis History Archive | 2 | 26 Dec 2007 15:25 |
Lola T280 | Alain HACHE | Motorsport History | 348 | 4 Jan 2006 17:24 |
Lola | Osella | Sportscar & GT Racing | 14 | 25 Aug 2002 12:37 |
Lola | cv2000 | National & International Single Seaters | 12 | 18 Jun 2002 05:36 |