BREAKING NEWS: Montoya may miss Bahrain GP - Page 3

**GTRMagic** · 28 Mar 2005, 08:51 (Ref:1263372)

So why change the car so the test-now-race driver fits when there is a perfectly good substitute in Mika Hakkinen, or indeed Pedro de la Rosa available instead?

Kicking-back · 28 Mar 2005, 09:37 (Ref:1263383)

My suggestion of Mika was mischevious - he's adamant he has retired from F1.

Pedro and Alex will both be needed this weekend, there are three seats - the two race cars and the Friday tester.

Dixie Flatline · 28 Mar 2005, 10:27 (Ref:1263393)

In my view, article 85 applies to the driver, not the car. Therefore, subject to such clarification from the FIA that may be forthcoming, Montoya's substitute is entitled to a new engine, and in turn Montoya can expect a new engine on his return, though there would be some argument that when Montoya returns to the car, he should use his engine from the last race he drove because that would two consecutive races for Montoya.

**Adam43** · 28 Mar 2005, 10:36 (Ref:1263403)

On whether it is the car or driver: http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67194 I don't think they'll need a rule clarification on this one - the teams know it!

Anyway, Montoya has just finished a two race cycle, so it makes no difference.

Dixie Flatline · 28 Mar 2005, 10:42 (Ref:1263405)

Actually, if Montoya misses only one race, it makes a difference, because it's a question of whether he has to use the engine used in de la Rosa's car, or whether he can change the engine without penalty.

Mr V · 28 Mar 2005, 11:15 (Ref:1263424)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rennen

I just asked AD he says "driver"...

And what would he know

*puts on coat and makes a hasty retreat*

Marbot · 28 Mar 2005, 12:28 (Ref:1263471)

So, if the engine belongs to the driver and lets say JPM is out for 2 races but still had a race left on his engine.
That would mean PDLR would get a fresh engine to last for the 2 races JPM was out and then when JPM came back he would have to use the engine from 3 races back despite the fact that the team had used a better upgrade of engine for PDLR.

Could happen in theory....or could it?

Also if PDLR only does one race and then as to do another ,say in China,that would mean the team would have to keep that engine in mothballs for just such an ocassion.

Jordi · 28 Mar 2005, 13:24 (Ref:1263496)

Well, I don't know about the engines so I'm not going to say anything about that. Fell sorry for JPM, this will only slow his season, but I hope Pedro does a great race. His reputation was very much damaged in 2002 with that Jaguar.

Don K · 28 Mar 2005, 20:44 (Ref:1263782)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

So, if the engine belongs to the driver and lets say JPM is out for 2 races but still had a race left on his engine.
That would mean PDLR would get a fresh engine to last for the 2 races JPM was out and then when JPM came back he would have to use the engine from 3 races back despite the fact that the team had used a better upgrade of engine for PDLR.

Could happen in theory....or could it?

That's what we think..

And that's exactly why we started a separate thread about it yesterday (which has been mentioned a couple of times).

chillibowl · 28 Mar 2005, 22:05 (Ref:1263830)

sad for jpm, but lucky for the public in the sense that we have already had so many driver issues so early in the season. its all very exciting and watching someone new/relatively new/ or just unproven adds alot to a race.

if alex is the test driver this coming friday will he be driving an mp4-19b or will they go for another driver who can fit in the mp4-20. do they even have a forth test driver?

also as a side, does anyone know how a team would go about making a car bigger for a driver without changing the shape of the car or monocoque chasis or is he just going to poking out of the cockpit like button?

mac · 29 Mar 2005, 00:26 (Ref:1263876)

As for those theorising about who will fill in for JPM.

It will be Pedro. It would be ridiculous to suggest anyone else as there are no valid reasons to not use him.

Kicking-back · 29 Mar 2005, 04:59 (Ref:1263951)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chillibowl

if alex is the test driver this coming friday will he be driving an mp4-19b or will they go for another driver who can fit in the mp4-20. do they even have a forth test driver?

Alex is most likely to be the third driver and he'll be in an MP4/20 - they're getting one ready for him this week, having previously scheduled it for Barcelona.

Quote:

also as a side, does anyone know how a team would go about making a car bigger for a driver without changing the shape of the car or monocoque chasis or is he just going to poking out of the cockpit like button?

In this case, they're just having to reorganise the layout of the cockpit - electrical boxes and the like - and he'll then fit. He won't be sticking out of the car. Even Button, who you name, fits his car properly, or he wouldn't meet the rules on roll-over protection

ASCII Man · 29 Mar 2005, 09:15 (Ref:1264072)

If they're getting one ready for him this week then why don't they let him race?
I'm certain he can do alot better than "Peter of the Rose"...

Kicking-back · 29 Mar 2005, 09:36 (Ref:1264085)

Maybe Alex will race - but it's more likely they'll go with PdlR because of his extra mileage in the MP4/20

sonic · 29 Mar 2005, 09:40 (Ref:1264089)

Tennis?!

I heard a little rumour that he really did it riding Motocross...

Kicking-back · 29 Mar 2005, 09:43 (Ref:1264091)

Which McLaren have vehemently denied.

I don't see there's any reason not to believe the official line on this.

Javi · 29 Mar 2005, 10:53 (Ref:1264148)

De La Rosa will do well. I am really angry he´s so vehemently understated. He outraced and outqualifyed reputed drivers like Verstappen and Irvine, don´t anyone remember this? Wurz always counted (when he raced) with cars vastly superiors to PdlR. I am not saying De la Rosa is like M. Schumacher, but he´s a competent driver and deserves the chance

**Adam43** · 29 Mar 2005, 11:01 (Ref:1264159)

I suppose it depends on your definition of reputed!

Actually I don't see why de la Rosa would do any worse than Wurz. I rate them both well. In some ways I'd prefer Wurz to have a go because he is the longer standing test driver. However due to the difficulties of the cockpit size and because Pedro has had more seat time in this year's car I think they are being sensible if they chose him.

Javi · 29 Mar 2005, 12:41 (Ref:1264238)

don´t get me wrong, I also think Wurz is a nice driver, and in some sense it would be more justified to let him race after all the time as a test driver, but he´s got no experience with the MP4-20 and De la Rosa has...
reputed? OK, maybe my direct translation from spanish is not correct, oops, but you get my point...

Jordi · 29 Mar 2005, 13:29 (Ref:1264284)

What Javi tries to say is that De la Rosa seems to have a bad reputation from his 2002 year, when Irvine got on the podium and Pedro couldn't even score.
After all, Pedro wasn't that bad that year. He got most of the bad breaks in a poor car.

But Pedro is a competent racer - I think he can do a better job than Gené did last year (admittedly the FW26 was tough).

BootsOntheSide · 29 Mar 2005, 14:00 (Ref:1264312)

In general Pedro was behind Eddie's pace that year, but not by a huge margin. In the Australia and Monza races where Eddie did so well, Pedro ran close behind him early on but then had car problems. Don't forget that he outqualified Eddie 5 races in a row the previous season, at a time when Eddie was seen to be on strong form and was making inroads up the field in the Jaguar. Even though Wurz is the better driver in theory, I'm sure Alex would accept that circusmtances make Pedro the right choice.

BSchneiderFan · 29 Mar 2005, 14:50 (Ref:1264341)

When will McLaren make the decision about Montoya?

Down F0rce · 29 Mar 2005, 14:58 (Ref:1264344)

Thursday, apparantly.

gti5notrkt · 29 Mar 2005, 17:17 (Ref:1264437)

So as I understand it the new engine rule is related to the driver not the car, but if the 'event' has started, any replacement driver has to use the engine that was installed for the first official practice session...

So.....my devious mind is thinking that if a team wanted to use a new engine without penalty (assuming that they are on the 2nd race with the current engine) that they could nominate their test driver as the race driver for the first official practice session and fit a new lump. After the 1st practice the team could claim some bogus reason like sickness and then replace him with the regular team driver. Since the replacement driver has to use the engine that started the event he would have a new lump at no penalty

Jon.

Kicking-back · 29 Mar 2005, 17:21 (Ref:1264440)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gti5notrkt

So.....my devious mind is thinking that if a team wanted to use a new engine without penalty (assuming that they are on the 2nd race with the current engine) that they could nominate their test driver as the race driver for the first official practice session and fit a new lump. After the 1st practice the team could claim some bogus reason like sickness and then replace him with the regular team driver. Since the replacement driver has to use the engine that started the event he would have a new lump at no penalty

Jon.

More devious than any of the teams would be, certainly.

Such a plan would be quite transparent, I believe.

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