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20 Jun 2004, 20:41 (Ref:1010009) | #51 | |||
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F1 cars have been getting quicker and quickly getting quicker. However I don't think that because they are 2s (or whatever) quicker now than at some point in the past means they are now unsafe. Where is the line and why has it been magically crossed? Has the huge increases in crash tests not been enough in the last few years? I don't see the situation as being irresponsible at the moment. Safety is important. Of course. However it is a case of acceptable risks. It seems acceptable at the moment, there isn't outrage about racing these cars. Although there is a general discussion about it and cars will be pegged back in the not too distant future. Which is a decent point. Isn't Max pushing through rules to peg the cars back. Is it a problem that this looks like it'll be 2006 not a week on Tuesday? Are these cars too unsafe at the moment? No IMHO. Are there moves afoot to reduce speeds? Yes. Has Ralf's accident made a difference to this? No. Should it? No. IMHO. |
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20 Jun 2004, 20:42 (Ref:1010011) | #52 | |
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Recently a guy was killed in a Renault Clio race in Britain. The corner speeds are much lower in that category.
It is not the corner speeds that kill, it is the level of safety the cars provide....F1 is unsurpassed in that sense and I see no problem at all. Unfortunately, someone escapes a major shunt today with minor bruising and a few aches and mass hysteria kicks off with one or two people, which is a shame. |
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20 Jun 2004, 20:43 (Ref:1010016) | #53 | ||
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If you look at what sort of Genre this sort of entertainment comes under "RACING", this is what people will do. F1 is the PINACLE of motorsport and the fastest track cars compete in it, the teams hire the worlds best racing drivers to drive these cars and these drivers are more than capable of coping with these speeds. Today Martin was saying that D.C and K.R. could not wait to get the new MP4 19B as this one was TOO SLOW.
I feel that it would be very hard to kill yourself whilst racing an f1 car. Take Spa 2001 Burti had a 185mph crash at the Blancemont corner and was in hospital for 2 days and the front end of the car was not even creased, sure the wings and wheels were gone but his body was protected. And Button in Monaco in 03. 130mph sideways shunt and he wanted to race the day after. I rest my case |
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"Sky has closed in,........and yet again we have challenging, and changable conditions for the drivers" (Martin Brundle Hungry 2011, the weekend of the sky deal confirmation) |
20 Jun 2004, 20:44 (Ref:1010018) | #54 | |||
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Worth discussing, obviously, but as I have said this thread has been tainted by the starting time/reason which has stopped us sitting back and looking at it objectively, |
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20 Jun 2004, 20:47 (Ref:1010024) | #55 | ||
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F1 is the safest its been in years. Why all the fuss?
Last edited by Inigo Montoya; 20 Jun 2004 at 20:48. |
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"And the most important thing is that we, the Vettels, the Bernies, whoever, should not destroy our own sport by making stupid comments about the ******* noise." - Niki Lauda |
20 Jun 2004, 20:48 (Ref:1010025) | #56 | |||
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Again you can never really make this sport immune to accidents. They will happen, sadly. Danger is a part of this sport. Some drivers are more brave then others and some fans appreciate their brevity though some dont like them as well. Some drivers just have unfortunate accidents. That has always been the case. |
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Stop the fr*** rule changes, Moseley! |
20 Jun 2004, 20:57 (Ref:1010047) | #57 | ||
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I don't see much difference between hitting a wall at 170 and at 190...
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I specialize in the history of small displacement sports racers from France and Italy, circa 1930-1960. |
20 Jun 2004, 21:01 (Ref:1010055) | #58 | ||
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Does anyone??
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"Sky has closed in,........and yet again we have challenging, and changable conditions for the drivers" (Martin Brundle Hungry 2011, the weekend of the sky deal confirmation) |
20 Jun 2004, 21:11 (Ref:1010070) | #59 | |
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This thread is hysterical nonsense and should be put out of its misery.
Everyone cares about driver safety -- which is why F1 cars and tracks have never been safer. The one safety issue worth discussing is the quality of the track personnel -- marshals, stewards and medical teams -- a huge variable that shouldn't be tolerated at this level. |
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20 Jun 2004, 21:13 (Ref:1010071) | #60 | |
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Its all relative. Apparently you are something like 50% more likely to be killed by a car if it hits you at 35mph, rather than 30mph.
Personally I have never heard a driver call for cars to be slowed down, until this year in F1. Again it is all relative. Even in 2006 they will still be quicker than in the 80s and early 90s. Nobody doubts the cars have the very best safety standards, the problem is F1 cornering speeds in partucualr are now reaching the point were, if you go off, it won't matter how strong the car is, the shear size of the impact will seriously injure, if not kill a driver. Someone mentioned Spa 2001 earlier. The cars today are around 5 seconds a lap faster than then, with the time gained through improved cornering speed due to tire development etc. It doesn't sound alot, but 5 seconds adds up to a huge increase in the force of an accident if a crash occurs. |
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20 Jun 2004, 21:19 (Ref:1010076) | #61 | ||
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but why is it that this last 5s drop in lap time not acceptable, but the 5s before that was? Where is the line, I'm intrigued why it at these speeds and how 'these kinds of accidents' have shown us this?
Off topic: The 35 and 30 mph advert is about being hit by a car, as you say, not being killed in the car. It takes into account reaction time, which basically means you are more likely to be actually hit let alone hit faster. |
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20 Jun 2004, 21:30 (Ref:1010087) | #62 | |
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I take your point, but Imola 94 showed there is a line that the cars cross were they become dangerous.
Drivers, commentators, engineers etc. have all commented on the speed increaes in recent years (on top of cars that where already super quick). Why did the IRL switch from 3.5l to 3l engines this year, why do NASCAR have restrictors on the Superspeedways, why do the ACO fit restrictors to the Le Mans cars, why do the FIA limit WRC cars to 350BHP and are about to introduce control tires to cut tarmac cornering speeds? There is heaps of research into what the body can take in terns of impact, and the FIA have taken this into account when they have taken measures to reduce cornering speeds over the years. However in recent years, the influence of the manufactuers have prevented the FIA making the types of changes they want to, with the FIA being threatened with breakaways if they so dare as change the regs. Last edited by JAG; 20 Jun 2004 at 21:33. |
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20 Jun 2004, 21:34 (Ref:1010090) | #63 | |||
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"Sky has closed in,........and yet again we have challenging, and changable conditions for the drivers" (Martin Brundle Hungry 2011, the weekend of the sky deal confirmation) |
20 Jun 2004, 21:35 (Ref:1010093) | #64 | ||
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"the guy's fine"
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20 Jun 2004, 21:36 (Ref:1010095) | #65 | |||
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Also, yes all those other series are reducing speeds. And so is F1. However the hows and whys are specific in all. And I'd say in LM they have gone too far in terms of engines restrictions. Last edited by Adam43; 20 Jun 2004 at 21:39. |
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20 Jun 2004, 21:36 (Ref:1010097) | #66 | ||
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F1 tyres have groves to reduce cornering speed.
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"Sky has closed in,........and yet again we have challenging, and changable conditions for the drivers" (Martin Brundle Hungry 2011, the weekend of the sky deal confirmation) |
20 Jun 2004, 21:38 (Ref:1010101) | #67 | ||
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Almost off topic IMHO but since 2001, I would guess the lap time increase is more like 5s than 1s.
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20 Jun 2004, 21:39 (Ref:1010102) | #68 | ||
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Sorry my mistake
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"Sky has closed in,........and yet again we have challenging, and changable conditions for the drivers" (Martin Brundle Hungry 2011, the weekend of the sky deal confirmation) |
20 Jun 2004, 21:41 (Ref:1010105) | #69 | |
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Pole
Monaco 2000 - 1.19.475 Monaco 2004 - 1.13.985 Catalunya 2000 - 1.20.974 Catalunya 2004 - 1.15.022 Silverstone 2000 - 1.25.703 Silverstone testing 2004 - 1.17.xxx Montreal 2000 - 1.18.439 Montreal 2004 - 1.12,275 I could go on........ |
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20 Jun 2004, 21:43 (Ref:1010110) | #70 | ||
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yep ure right J.A.G i do apologise but i struggle to see why you worry to the extent you do abut formula 1 racing. It is as safe as it has ever been
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"Sky has closed in,........and yet again we have challenging, and changable conditions for the drivers" (Martin Brundle Hungry 2011, the weekend of the sky deal confirmation) |
20 Jun 2004, 21:46 (Ref:1010112) | #71 | |
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Lets just agree to disagree about the safety of the F1 cars
Last edited by JAG; 20 Jun 2004 at 21:48. |
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20 Jun 2004, 21:48 (Ref:1010115) | #72 | ||
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i don't see how constructors block the slowing of the cars . it's not like anyobody's gonna noticed on track .. they are trying to do things .. and those will be done .. but they can't rush it ..
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Apocalypse becomes creation / Gor-Gor shall erase the nation Before you leap into his gizzard / Fall and worship Tyrant lizard Ciao Marco |
20 Jun 2004, 21:50 (Ref:1010121) | #73 | ||
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I agree wiv J.A.G. Ralph is o.k f1 is safe but accidents can and will happen J.A.G. shall we agree to disagree and i'll stick you on my Buddys list
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"Sky has closed in,........and yet again we have challenging, and changable conditions for the drivers" (Martin Brundle Hungry 2011, the weekend of the sky deal confirmation) |
20 Jun 2004, 21:51 (Ref:1010123) | #74 | ||
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20 Jun 2004, 22:09 (Ref:1010156) | #75 | |
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Thanks for the welcome knowsley...this thread finally inspired me to take 10 seconds and register. lol
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