F1's most controvertial moment!

[oblivion]

Adelaide 1994 is the one that sticks out most for me.

[ASCII Man]

Originally posted by deeks6
I'm sorry, but this one always amazes me. Pironi was hardly the first guy to disobey team orders and GV allegedly hated him for it but how Pironi "drove Villeneuve to his death" by setting a faster time in practice is beyond me. If this was the case, the Jaguar factory could currently double as an undertaker.
Villeneuve failed to see a slowing car (Jochen Mass, I believe) in time and hit its rear wheel while he was on a hot lap.
This conspiracy theory belongs in Area 54 with the Roswell spacecraft.

For your information, Jochen moved off the racing line to let Villeneuve through, and blocked the pitlane entry just as Gilles wanted to enter it, thinking Gilles was on a hot lap while Gilles was actually on an in lap.
Gilles always drove very fast, whether he's on an out, hot or in lap.

But i don't believe that Pironi had a direct influence on his death, more so through Gilles' state of mind as Adam said before.
He was too fixed on beating Didier to the pole.

[Fish_Flake]

But the accident took place on the back end of the circuit. Gilles wasn't even close to the pit entry.

[Phoenix1]

Originally posted by jj2728
the day that team lotus showed up in its "GOLD LEAF TEAM LOTUS" colors.....f1 changed forever after that and it caused a wee bit of controversy at the time......

Not the first case of sponsors on the car. I'll have to find it when I get home unless someone else can but there is a piece in "Motorsport" about this. But without it to hand. It was last month I think. Common myths and all.

[Hazza]

The Gilles Villeneuve Biography is a very good one to read, like the Barry Sheene one I read aswell - shows both sides of the man. Of special mention is gilles buying a helliocopter, and when asked "why couldn't he wait till next year"

"I may not be around next year"

But still, it is fairly well prooven that Pironi cheated

"I think if i want someone to stay behind me, they stay there

being one example, but yeah, that is just my opinion.

[deeks6]

Originally posted by ASCII Man
For your information, Jochen moved off the racing line to let Villeneuve through, and blocked the pitlane entry just as Gilles wanted to enter it, thinking Gilles was on a hot lap while Gilles was actually on an in lap.
Gilles always drove very fast, whether he's on an out, hot or in lap.

Sorry, but not quite true...in fact, Mauro Forghieri had shown the Gilles the "IN" sign as he went past the start. He figured that his tyres were now fryed and he could go no faster and would have to settle for P2 on the grid. GV appeared to have other ideas about coming in because he did not slow down at all. However, the accident happened at the left hand kink near the Terlamenbocht, nowhere near the pits. Jochen Mass saw him in the mirrors and politely moved right approaching the left hander, rightly expecting GV to pass on the inside. The rest, as they say, is history.

[racer69]

All correct deeks, except that as far as i know they weren't fighting for pole, they were in about 4th and 5th or so.

Most controversial moment......can't pinpoint one but mostly they involved Nigel Mansell.

[deeks6]

indeed Racer69, got a bit carried away then...meant p2 to Pironi...was actually 6 and 7.

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Phoenix1
Not the first case of sponsors on the car. I'll have to find it when I get home unless someone else can but there is a piece in "Motorsport" about this. But without it to hand. It was last month I think. Common myths and all.

This was mentioned in a letter in this month's Motorsport. It was a privateer team entereed with John Love (and another who I forget) in the South African GP.

The SA GP was the first of the season and held on 1st January, so there wasn't much opportunity to run non-motor racing sponsorship in F1 before this!

[EERO]

I vote for 1968 and the appearence of Player's Tobacco Gold Leaf branding on the Lotus 49's. (I had missed jj's comment first time through, but to add to subsequent comments, believe that apart from Love as mentioned by phoenix and AA], previous sponsors in F1 had Motorsports or motor industry connections, correct me if I am wrong)

The rise of commercialism stimulated an increased professionalism in the sport. It might be argued that the quality of the racers and the racing got better, but teams no longer raced for national pride, but for the Glory of a Corporate Boardroom. (Long Live Phillip Miorris!)

I would argue that the increased involvement of Non-motorsports Sponsors through the '70's directly led to the profusion of Kit-Car Constructors in the '70's and later contributed to their collective demise as the expense spiralled ever-upward. The cost of remaining a participant became prohibative for all but the very savvy few.

Today, despite the fact that Cigarettes had only three years left before advertising was outlawed, F1 remains Tobacco's whore and has in the last year pulled the plug on several longstamding venues. Spa, Montreal and any race as the french GP deserve to be on the calledar long before China and Bahrain are even considered as venues. F1 management is forsakeing their established fanbase in the pursuit of tainted money from locales that allow them to continue to advertise cigs like a junkie who forsakes family, friends and welfare for that next fix.

Cigarette money built F1 and now it will destroy it.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by deeks6
Jochen Mass saw him in the mirrors and politely moved right approaching the left hander, rightly expecting GV to pass on the inside. The rest, as they say, is history.

Mass moved right, correct, but the next corner was a right hander, Gilles would have had to go round the outside. As he was coming out of the previous, he would have been on the wrong side of the circuit to go round the outside of Mass.

(BTW, in no way am i trying to lay blame on Mass, just a very tragic accident)

[deeks6]

Originally posted by Mr V
Mass moved right, correct, but the next corner was a right hander, Gilles would have had to go round the outside. As he was coming out of the previous, he would have been on the wrong side of the circuit to go round the outside of Mass.

(BTW, in no way am i trying to lay blame on Mass, just a very tragic accident)

No, it isnt. The accident occurred just after a crest in a kink approaching the Terlamenbocht, which is a LEFT hand corner.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by deeks6
No, it isnt. The accident occurred just after a crest in a kink approaching the Terlamenbocht, which is a LEFT hand corner.

Wrong

Just found this website..... ]HERE and i quote.....

while on his way to the pits during Saturday qualifying, he came up behind the much slower March of Mass. Gilles' in laps were often like other driver's hot ones, and Mass pulled over to give him a free track, in the process obstructing the pit entrance. The resulting collision sent the Ferrari off in cartwheeling disintegration. Villeneuve was resuscitated at the scene, but his injuries were mortal. He died in a local hospital that evening.

Here's a circuit guide also (i have circled the spot).....

.

[deeks6]

Nice map, Mr V but up in the top right hand corner you will see the place the accident actually occurred. It is nowhere near the pits. Also GV was reputed to be doing 140 mph when he hit...unlikely in the chicane you have pointed out. Also the pit entry is back from where you have circled and the circuit goes anti clockwise...just a few minor corrections!

[Mr V]

Originally posted by deeks6
Also the pit entry is back from where you have circled and the circuit goes anti clockwise...just a few minor corrections!

The circuit between 1975 and 1985 (which isn't much different from the graphic above) was 2.648 Miles or 4.261 km and ran in a clockwise direction.

[BARrouette]

G.V. is one of the biggest f1 lost...There is not many driver like him.I still remember seeing that crash live, i was only 10. So sad...

[ASCII Man]

Originally posted by Mr V
The circuit between 1975 and 1985 (which isn't much different from the graphic above) was 2.648 Miles or 4.261 km and ran in a clockwise direction.

Can't blame him for trying, i suppose...

[deeks6]

Yes, I went back and checked the circuit after I shot my mouth off...clockwise. However the accident was at the back of the track at the left hand kink as I said, not near the pits. Tragic, in any case.

[Mr V]

Having watched the actual footage of it, i concur that i got the part of the track wrong (that will teach me to rely on a website ) but i stand by my original statement that Gilles should have gone round the outside as opposed to trying the inside (of Mass) as the following corner was a right hander.

[deeks6]

Mr V...we'll call it a draw then

There were probably quite a few times when GV zigged when he should have zagged...Mt Fuji 77 probably the worst of them.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by deeks6
Mr V...we'll call it a draw then

A fair result, let me return you that

[Logrence]

If we're strictly talking controversy, I think the moment Jacques Villeneuve drove into Michael Schumacher as the the German hit a patch of oil at Jerez in '97 so he could win the title was perhaps the most controversial of all F1 events.

It polarises opinion like nothing before, or after. Except maybe whether this is DC's year or not.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Logrence
If we're strictly talking controversy, I think the moment Jacques Villeneuve drove into Michael Schumacher as the the German hit a patch of oil at Jerez in '97 so he could win the title was perhaps the most controversial of all F1 events.

:confused: Michael never hit a patch of oil? :confused:

[ASCII Man]

Originally posted by Logrence
If we're strictly talking controversy, I think the moment Jacques Villeneuve drove into Michael Schumacher as the the German hit a patch of oil at Jerez in '97 so he could win the title was perhaps the most controversial of all F1 events.

Oh, that one made my day!

[Gt_R]

I don't know...but the version i heard doesn't tally.

Could you provide a link?