[Team] Haas: Gene Haas of NASCAR attempting to start F1 team

[climb]

Italiaracing hints that Colin Kolels proposal was for having a team running in 2015; whereas Haas is supposed to have aposted a request to join F1 from the 2016 season; what is said elsewhere?

[Formulahistory]

Motorsport-total.com says the same

[Kempi]

I wish there weren't always names coming up that have failed with attempts before. In both of those contemplated entries.

[climb]

well the alternative entries is managed by Colin Kolles... I've said everything

[wnut]

Originally Posted by el_cat

Read the decision delayed stuff on Joe Saward's blog - which suggests that this will now make it too late for any new team to get their stuff together in time for next season. Unless of course they proceed at risk and make a start without guaranteed an entry.

Smacks of a closed shop attitude if this is true - the FIA should be doing all it can to encourage and assist new entrants

You're right, F1 is just a racing club masquerading its championship as a world championship.

Previously in taking a formula to a national level it was submitted to me that part of the deal was that anyone that wished to enter, and complied had to be allowed entry for it to be recognized as a national championship!

Not so with a world championship apparently.

P.S. F1 would be damn lucky to get Gene Haas and Co involved!

[Teretonga]

There are already 11 teams involved. That's a team too many to share the annual Concorde agreement pot.
3 extra teams would create too much trouble and maybe for the existing members...
There used to be 34 cars entered for some events in the late 80's and you had to prequalify to get a chance to run at qualifying... Up to 30 did qualifying and then only 26 could start.... Now that is an open door...

But now we are so technical and it is so expensive you can no longer rock up with a chassis, stick a DFZ in the back and run mid field at least if you do your stuff well.
That day has gone for F1...

[climb]

the problem is, since F1 is very expensive, most teams cannot live up with the financial commitments if they don't get rapidly competitive.
consequently there is always a need for newbies available to keep the grid over the minimum 18 cars level.
And the more is the entrant qualified, the more hopew we have to see it for a longer time; therefore I hope the Haas option is preferred

[wolfhound]

Its good to see some serious interest from the USA in running an F1 team as it has been a gaping hole in F1 for many years. A team from there should help F1's profile in the USA along with giving their motorsport personnel exposure to somthing outside of domestic series (excluding sportscars). It would be good for Americans if they could show they are able to compete on a world stage rather than domestic based motorsports.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Its good to see some serious interest from the USA in running an F1 team as it has been a gaping hole in F1 for many years. A team from there should help F1's profile in the USA along with giving their motorsport personnel exposure to somthing outside of domestic series (excluding sportscars). It would be good for Americans if they could show they are able to compete on a world stage rather than domestic based motorsports.

It would need to work both from a competitive and commercial perspective thought. These days it's all about brand bs as well as on track success?

An American team would need to work extremely hard knocking on doors of big US based global enterprises for title sponsorship. I'm sure they already are!

They would have the usp of being the only American outfit but, they would need to ba able to illustrate a pretty good guarantee of getting those prospective sponsors on the telly regularly every other weekend in the USA as well as all those countries around the globe.

[Formulahistory]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

There are already 11 teams involved. That's a team too many to share the annual Concorde agreement pot.
3 extra teams would create too much trouble and maybe for the existing members...
There used to be 34 cars entered for some events in the late 80's and you had to prequalify to get a chance to run at qualifying... Up to 30 did qualifying and then only 26 could start.... Now that is an open door...

But now we are so technical and it is so expensive you can no longer rock up with a chassis, stick a DFZ in the back and run mid field at least if you do your stuff well.
That day has gone for F1...

Yes, but there must be money for all teams, not just for the best ten.

And in 1989 we had a maximum of 39 entered F1 cars!

[S griffin]

In fact we had 40 in 89, but the FIRST team never made it. I wish we could have more teams. Even if new teams don't do well, surely we should applaud them for trying?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Formulahistory

Yes, but there must be money for all teams, not just for the best ten.

And in 1989 we had a maximum of 39 entered F1 cars!

The point is that the boys club should nit be allowed to choose who is eligible to join a world championship, anyone that can produce a car should be allowed to enter, if there are too many cars then pre-qualifying should be instituted.
If an outsider cannot qualify, so be it, guaranteeing entry for uncompetitive cars at the expense of new entrants though is just not on in a 'world championship'. Surprised the EEC allows this!

[Nicholosophy]

Originally Posted by wnut

The point is that the boys club should nit be allowed to choose who is eligible to join a world championship, anyone that can produce a car should be allowed to enter, if there are too many cars then pre-qualifying should be instituted.
If an outsider cannot qualify, so be it, guaranteeing entry for uncompetitive cars at the expense of new entrants though is just not on in a 'world championship'. Surprised the EEC allows this!

The problem we have now is that tracks have been built to house 26 or so F1 cards in the garages, and teams expect a certain amount of space at a GP. You also can't just enter one or two GP to get a taste of it like in years gone past.

I don't like the current system but I can't think of a better system that is workable.

[P38 in workshop]

I think post #62 is correct in describing the limit on entries as not being the right side of any rational description regarding "restraint of trade".The series was debased when the limit on entry numbers was somehow introduced.If a team can build a car that meets the technical criteria,they should be allowed on track to qualify-or not.I can accept that they ought to be required to commit to appearing at every event and would support the idea that failing to do so would incur a penalty.Regrettably, the complexity and cost of the current power units is probably the limiting factor as with only three suppliers there is inadequate depth and breadth in the pool to support additional aspiring entrants.

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by NickoGP

I don't like the current system but I can't think of a better system that is workable.

Promotion/relegation. Scrap GP2, replace it with a formula using whatever engine is decently available, call it, say Formula 2, and allow anyone to enter to a strict costs budget. Win that and you get a shot at F1. Finish bottom of F1 and you drop into F2.

It's a bit ridiculous that the one-make formula below means it's impossible for a team to learn how to build a car before getting to F1. The recent teams who have tried that have largely flopped. Stewart was the last to succeed. When you look at the current teams, most of them started off building lower formulae cars first, even Toro Rosso did as Minardi in the early 80s. And those that didn't (like Williams) cut their teeth running as privateers so they had a baseline they could modify.

[Adam43]

Theoretically owning the team may be cheaper than paying the sponsorship and you'd get more control. It is more of a commitment though.

[Salamus]

Originally Posted by ensign14

Promotion/relegation. Scrap GP2, replace it with a formula using whatever engine is decently available, call it, say Formula 2, and allow anyone to enter to a strict costs budget. Win that and you get a shot at F1. Finish bottom of F1 and you drop into F2.

It's a bit ridiculous that the one-make formula below means it's impossible for a team to learn how to build a car before getting to F1. The recent teams who have tried that have largely flopped. Stewart was the last to succeed. When you look at the current teams, most of them started off building lower formulae cars first, even Toro Rosso did as Minardi in the early 80s. And those that didn't (like Williams) cut their teeth running as privateers so they had a baseline they could modify.

That's a cool idea. Problems that could surface however are driver contracts and sponsorship deals. Driver contracts would have to be signed year-to-year to prevent quality drivers from dropping out of F1. Sponsorship deals could also be a problem for the small teams in F1 because they would have a very high probability of dropping down...and no sponsor would want to be in F2.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

I think post #62 is correct in describing the limit on entries as not being the right side of any rational description regarding "restraint of trade".The series was debased when the limit on entry numbers was somehow introduced.If a team can build a car that meets the technical criteria,they should be allowed on track to qualify-or not.I can accept that they ought to be required to commit to appearing at every event and would support the idea that failing to do so would incur a penalty.Regrettably, the complexity and cost of the current power units is probably the limiting factor as with only three suppliers there is inadequate depth and breadth in the pool to support additional aspiring entrants.

I think that the present engine formula is the main hindrance to an open championship. Its is so complex technically (although they will get a handle on it) that teams and even new engine producers are going to be thin on the ground even if it was opened up. Its not just money any more, although that is still the major factor. Bernie has recently said that the Concorde agreement is no longer necessary (the present situation has no Concorde agreement) as he says the current board of six teams, six votes the commercial owner and 6 votes FIA supersedes the Concorde agreement.
I don't think you have to be forced to commit to every event as you'll be cutting your own throat if you are serious and don't do it by missing out on funds from the teams agreement so its a in a sense a de-facto penalty anyway.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by ensign14

Promotion/relegation. Scrap GP2, replace it with a formula using whatever engine is decently available, call it, say Formula 2, and allow anyone to enter to a strict costs budget. Win that and you get a shot at F1. Finish bottom of F1 and you drop into F2.

It's a bit ridiculous that the one-make formula below means it's impossible for a team to learn how to build a car before getting to F1. The recent teams who have tried that have largely flopped. Stewart was the last to succeed. When you look at the current teams, most of them started off building lower formulae cars first, even Toro Rosso did as Minardi in the early 80s. And those that didn't (like Williams) cut their teeth running as privateers so they had a baseline they could modify.

I could not agree more.

If they developed a cost caped F2 at about 20 million or less for a 2 car team it should be good training ground for future F1 teams.

[climb]

Attempts to bring the past back are appreciable, but not realistic IMHO

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by climb

Attempts to bring the past back are appreciable, but not realistic IMHO

Correct. It is what it is until circumstances force evolution on it.
But it is not just F1.
Its everything with a technical twist. The last 100 years has seen enormous advances in technology and knowledge about aerodynamics, fuel, materials, construction, energy etc.
The idea that our technology could save us is something of a double edged sword. Its also killing us. And the cost of experimental and development technology in a modern economy is enormous.
Early advances in technology were relatively cheap and came in leaps and bounds.
Now they are incremental and expensive. F1 is the same. We pay a fortune for incremental advances in the name of engineering competition.

The question is: Can we create a motor sporting culture that is spectacular, technical to a degree, safe, and yet relatively cheap so lower levels of the sport are accessible to the majority of the planet?
Then you can single out levels of advancement to more complex and expensive formula, yet not so extravagant that it reaches the economy level of a small nation.....

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

I could not agree more.

If they developed a cost caped F2 at about 20 million or less for a 2 car team it should be good training ground for future F1 teams.

Cost capped F2 at 20mill for 2 cars?

Surely you mean 2 mill?!!!

I agree in principle though, I think we need a freer second tier formula with a choice of non mainstream manufacturer built engines (they can badge them if they like) and a choice of say, 3-4 chassis.... Rev limit the engines at 11,000 or something.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Cost capped F2 at 20mill for 2 cars?

Surely you mean 2 mill?!!!

I agree in principle though, I think we need a freer second tier formula with a choice of non mainstream manufacturer built engines (they can badge them if they like) and a choice of say, 3-4 chassis.... Rev limit the engines at 11,000 or something.

What I was thinking about was a design and build type of formula with restrictions to keep costs under control. I am not a fan of spec class racing as it does nothing for the next generation of Adrian Newey's.

I would like to see a class where teams can design and build their cars at restricted cost. This would allow the development of all the various skills required. You could have a lot of spec components including wheels, gearbox, wings? possibly monocoque or a number of suppliers who would supply a monocoque at a certain cost.

[aki13]

When is the decision about the potential new teams for 2015 made?

I know it was delayed once but still haven't heard anything on it.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Haas has Bernie's blessing.
http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ec...n-2015-448458/
Question is - is it too late to start now for 2015?
I am curious which power plant he will use? Might it make sense for him to buy Cosworth given his other business ventures?