[WEC Race] 2012 Six Hours of Fuji

[Purist]

Thanks, Victor. That makes sense, and it's good to have another LMP1 out there.

[TF110]

Toyota fastest time overall so far at Fuji test sessions with their morning time of 1:29.088- (about 4 seconds faster than SuperGT's best).

[chernaudi]

Actually, Lotterer in session 2 ran a 1:29.073, which for a margin of victory would equate to only a few inches (.002 equals about 1-2 inches or less).

I wonder how the LMP2s fared compared to a GT500, considering that the factory LMP1s are lapping around Fuji only about 3-4 seconds faster than a GT500 (and might go faster as the track gets rubbered in). Also, I how do the factory LMP1s compare to a Formula Nippon car in Fuji's current config as far as sector times.

Also surprised to see Audi and Toyota still running the sprint bodywork, since Fuji is similar to Paul Ricard in layout and having a long straight as a dominant feature. Is Fuji that much more downforce oriented than PR, or is the sprint bodywork all that Audi and Toyota have available to them this late in the season?

[TF110]

P2's are running 1:33's which is about equal with GT500.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Actually, Lotterer in session 2 ran a 1:29.073, which for a margin of victory would equate to only a few inches (.002 equals about 1-2 inches or less).

I wonder how the LMP2s fared compared to a GT500, considering that the factory LMP1s are lapping around Fuji only about 3-4 seconds faster than a GT500 (and might go faster as the track gets rubbered in). Also, I how do the factory LMP1s compare to a Formula Nippon car in Fuji's current config as far as sector times.

Also surprised to see Audi and Toyota still running the sprint bodywork, since Fuji is similar to Paul Ricard in layout and having a long straight as a dominant feature. Is Fuji that much more downforce oriented than PR, or is the sprint bodywork all that Audi and Toyota have available to them this late in the season?

I said Toyota's fastest time from the morning, their overall best so far. Not the best In the afternoon they were a tenth behind and concentrated on long runs.

[chernaudi]

It seems that most teams were running a sprint set up--even Rebellion's Lolas ran much of the session in full downforce trim. Only team that bothered running a low downforce spec was the JRM HPD, which makes sense because the HPD is a fairly draggy car with it's open cockpit and blunt-nosed bodywork.

[Slipknot]

Thanks for the Spotters Guide.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by TF110

I said Toyota's fastest time from the morning, their overall best so far. Not the best In the afternoon they were a tenth behind and concentrated on long runs.

Audi also concentrated on long runs in the afternoon. In fact, Lotterer set his fastest lap (1:29.073) during a double stints of 35 + 34 = 69 laps.

It is always interesting to compare the average lap times of the long runs.

car	driver	laps	average lap time
1	Lotterer	35	1:29.988
1	Lotterer	34	1:31.248
2	Kristensen	36	1:30.782
7	Nakajima	32	1:30.437
7	Wurz	30	1:30.390

Lotterer still seems to suffer from tyre wear in his second stint.

[chernaudi]

Seems to be conceivable that the race could go Audi's way if one condition is met--rain is possible for Sunday. How the Toyota does in race trim in the rain is a bit of an unknown because the only wet running in public they had was at Le Mans during the test between showers and the race day warm up session, and that's not a lot of info.

The forecast will likely change again, though--after all, yesterday they said that the whole race weekend was going to be sunny, dry, and in the 70's F.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Actually, Lotterer in session 2 ran a 1:29.073, which for a margin of victory would equate to only a few inches (.002 equals about 1-2 inches or less).

1:29.088 - 1:29.073 = 0.015. At an average speed of 184.4 km/h = 51.222 m/s that gap means 0.7683 m.

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I wonder how the LMP2s fared compared to a GT500, considering that the factory LMP1s are lapping around Fuji only about 3-4 seconds faster than a GT500 (and might go faster as the track gets rubbered in).

In http://www.toyotahybridracing.com/fu...vers-comments/ Nakajima compares the TS030 to GT500 cars:

The track is good fun in this car and I was really struck with the braking. In Super GT we don’t use carbon brakes so it was impressive to feel the difference. Compared to Super GT, the TS030 HYBRID is about four seconds quicker over one lap but in Super GT we have softer tyres; on race pace the difference will be around six seconds I think. The time is mainly made up from the braking and the boost out of the corner; it’s all cornering speed.

[tyronnezx]

Originally Posted by deggis

Thanks, but where is this @ lemans.org? Yesterday I already looked for it...


Just unprofessional. Technically not the most polished site, but worst part is the content (or lack of it)...

This also means the language. I'm not native English speaker but generally the language on the site seems just really weird at times. Like it was machine translated from French. The word choices ("Vibrate"?!). I find this really off-putting. Also, according to what grammar rule a space should always precede an exclamation mark? Is this is a French grammar rule?

not to mention they got their facts wrong. bit stupid when they say

Audi has known enormous success wherever it has raced, most particularly at the 24 Hours of Le Mans where it has taken 11 victories in 13 years and, in June this year, an historic first win for a hybrid-powered car.



Yeeeah....i think that Toyota Begs to differ on that part.


http://www.fiawec.com/en/news/audi-l...miere_697.html

[Purist]

It makes sense. The biggest difference between F1 cars and LMPs or other serious open-wheelers is in initial acceleration and in braking. Corner apex speeds aren't much different, and LMP1s can reach a higher top-end speed than an F1 car on long straights.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Purist

It makes sense. The biggest difference between F1 cars and LMPs or other serious open-wheelers is in initial acceleration and in braking. Corner apex speeds aren't much different, and LMP1s can reach a higher top-end speed than an F1 car on long straights.

In what universe? :O Sarthe is invalid as an example obviously because F1 doesn't run on anything that long.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by tyronnezx

not to mention they got their facts wrong. bit stupid when they say

Audi has known enormous success wherever it has raced, most particularly at the 24 Hours of Le Mans where it has taken 11 victories in 13 years and, in June this year, an historic first win for a hybrid-powered car.


Yeeeah....i think that Toyota Begs to differ on that part.

R18 etron is not a hybrid?

[tyronnezx]

Originally Posted by deggis

R18 etron is not a hybrid?

i didnt say it wasn't. BUT! a supra with a Hybrid won a 24 hour race well before the R18 Hybrid

here's the source:

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/07/16/h...okachi-24-hrs/

Judging by that it's safe to say that the Hybrid petrol bragging rights will aways be at the Toyota camp

[deggis]

"most particularly at the 24 Hours of Le Mans where"

It doesn't mean every race in the world.

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by Purist

It makes sense. The biggest difference between F1 cars and LMPs or other serious open-wheelers is in initial acceleration and in braking. Corner apex speeds aren't much different, and LMP1s can reach a higher top-end speed than an F1 car on long straights.

Not with 3.7L V8s they can't.

5.5L V12s maybe.


I don't think that corner apex speed statement is right either.

[MitchZ06]

Any further news on this GTE announcement rumor? Keep feeling like I'm a day ahead of myself...

[andy_b]

Originally Posted by andy_b

WEC Fuji Spotter Guide, presented by EYECOON.at, supported and hosted by Ten-Tenths.com is now online to download....and its free!



http://www.spotterguides.com/2012-wec/

Updated, I'd forgotten Nakano was at ADR and the latest entry list hasn't been updated for weeks.

[Purist]

Deggis and Greg, I can tell you this much right off. The F1 cars at Monza were topping out at 200-203-mph on their own. Even with DRS activated, they couldn't go beyond 210-mph.

Among those four longest stretches at Le Mans, the slowest of those, for a factory LMP1, is 210-mph. The other three see speeds of 212-216-mph.

LMP1s do not have DRS, and the energy required to attain a given speed goes up with the square of the velocity. Current F1 cars are supposed to be making ~800-hp, while current LMP1s are supposed to be making ~600-hp.

Remember, fendered cars are generally less draggy than open-wheelers, and F1 cars are about the worst drag producers on Earth! At high speed, if you lift off the gas (so not even braking at all), you experience more than 1G of deceleration. Basically, just lifting off the gas, at speed, in an F1 car, delivers more deceleration force than even the most exotic supercars can deliver when you're full on the brakes!

To get this back more on topic, here's a target value to keep in mind. I have the F1 map of Fuji from the FIA site. The top speed for the front straight listed is 190-mph (306km/h).

[JoeMaters]

Originally Posted by Purist

Deggis and Greg, I can tell you this much right off. The F1 cars at Monza were topping out at 200-203-mph on their own. Even with DRS activated, they couldn't go beyond 210-mph.

Lewis Hamilton MP4-27 toped at 211mph with DRS so yes, they went past 210.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Purist

To get this back more on topic, here's a target value to keep in mind. I have the F1 map of Fuji from the FIA site. The top speed for the front straight listed is 190-mph (306km/h).

2009 was the last year when F1 went to Fuji. According to http://www.formula1.com/results/seas...peed_trap.html Kovalainen hit a top speed of 313 km/h during qualifying that year.

In pre-testing the Oak-HPD recorded a top speed of 298.3 km/h during the morning session and 292.7 km/h during the afternoon session. I guess that they tried different aero setting. The Audi R18 hit 295.1 km/h and the Toyota TS030 only 288 km/h.

[TF110]

Toyota obviously has some great cornering speeds and acceleration if they're down almost 10kmh on the straights but setting equal times to Audi.

[Purist]

Gwyllion, F1 was at Fuji in 2007 and 2008. If that speed was set in 2009, it was at Suzuka. And frankly, I expect that today's F1 cars are still worse on drag than those of 2008.

And 211-mph isn't much compared to 210-mph, and is still certainly shy of 215-216-mph, especially when the F1 cars NEEDED the DRS to get that last 8-10-mph, not to mention their extra 200-hp.

I have a few more speeds to add to the list. Last year, I was seeing 197-mph, with DRS, on the main straight at Korea, and around 183-mph without that aid. At Suzuka just last weekend, the McLarens were pulling 197-mph approaching 130R (no DRS), and Schumacher was getting 200-mph with DRS down the pit straight; unaided, I would expect the run from Spoon to 130R to be the faster of the two.

[gwyllion]

Originally Posted by Purist

Gwyllion, F1 was at Fuji in 2007 and 2008. If that speed was set in 2009, it was at Suzuka. And frankly, I expect that today's F1 cars are still worse on drag than those of 2008.

My mistake. According to http://www.formula1.com/results/seas...peed_trap.html the top speed during F1 qualifying 2008 was 317 km/h by Sutil.