Official: Hamilton gets second seat - Page 3

JeremySmith · 25 Nov 2006, 18:36 (Ref:1774821)

Overtaking? what is that now

Alan Raine · 25 Nov 2006, 18:39 (Ref:1774823)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Overtaking? what is that now

Did you watch the Turkish GP2 race, that's how to overtake (and also to cock up the first lap)

Sodemo · 25 Nov 2006, 18:45 (Ref:1774826)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racingdad

Anyone who saw Lewis through the years would know that Lewis likes a pointy car (and before that kart) as well - it was this that caused a few issues when he made his first foray into FR with Manor who gave him a very benign set-up (aka understeer). So in theory he and Alonso will like a very similar car.

Whatever anyone says, this is great news for F1.

I don't think I understand...

You say that Lewis likes a pointy car, well, isn't that the opposite to what Alonso likes?

Alonso's car is always very understeery...

neilap · 25 Nov 2006, 20:31 (Ref:1774879)

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monster

I don't think I understand...

You say that Lewis likes a pointy car, well, isn't that the opposite to what Alonso likes?

Alonso's car is always very understeery...

This is exactly the point I was about to make. The way FA tosses the car into corners if it was more on the oversteer side he would spin the car. Either way I would assume Mac will build a car as neutral as possible so the drivers can adapt. In the US we only get GP2 so I have not seen LH race otherwise. In GP2 he impressed me though. LH raced with a lot of maturity I think that was is advantage over Piquet.

williamsf1 · 25 Nov 2006, 20:33 (Ref:1774880)

I agree with monster!!!!

GONZO's car is ALWAYS pushing heavily...

But many a famous driver/engineer has said " An understeering car is a fast race car!"

why?

you can get a larger throttle % on earlier, and have confidence in the car...

neilap · 25 Nov 2006, 20:41 (Ref:1774884)

Whoa, I dont know about that. Any car that you have to lift to point does not sound fast to me. I think Alonso is just special. He has found a way to make a more stable feeling car also turn in well. I have always preferred oversteer and most of the faster drivers I have seen do too. It just makes sense to me. Maybe with oversteer one has to be more gentle with the throttle but the driver does not wear out the front tires trying to get the thing to turn and destroy the rears attempting to steer the car with the accelerator pedal.

A smooth driver can make a car that oversteers ( ofcourse within reason) much faster than understeer. This is one of the reasons a FWD car will rarely match a RWD car in turns.

JeremySmith · 25 Nov 2006, 20:49 (Ref:1774888)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Raine

Did you watch the Turkish GP2 race, that's how to overtake (and also to cock up the first lap)

Unfortunately the GP2 races are broadcast here a little to early for me so I have missed most/all of them, although the one race I did get to see I enjoyed a great deal..

Knowlesy · 25 Nov 2006, 21:19 (Ref:1774911)

Get on youtube Jeremy!

racingdad · 25 Nov 2006, 23:49 (Ref:1774964)

C'me on guys. Schumi fanously liked a car that some found undrivable because of the amount of OVERSTEER - all really good drivers like the front end to go where they point it and they will look after the rear. As any racing driver and they will tell you that understeer is the slowest option - always. Even in NASCAR they hate a car that has too much 'push' but there they try to avoid too much drift because they might catch the wall. Alonso simply found a way of making a car that was prone to understeer handle in a way that let him hustle it (aka oversteer).

I don't know why I bother.........

Marbot · 26 Nov 2006, 02:30 (Ref:1775012)

And what could be better than a "pointy" car with traction control.

davyboy · 26 Nov 2006, 11:28 (Ref:1775199)

Its highly likely that McLaren will design the car around Alonso and why wouldn't they, its their best chance to regain lost ground and have a chance at the championship again. Note too that the car does need significant development and being the understudy of a double world champion as he carries this out is a fantastic learning experience. Much better than walking into a situation where the champion already has the car to his liking and 2-3 seasons of time with the team under his belt.

Lewis is still on a learning curve, that's now sharpened its incline. Part of that learning curve is adapting your driving style to get the best out of the car. No matter what team on the F1 grid he drove for in 2007, he would be in a similar [junior] position to somebody else.

Ron Dennis is a very compasionate and understanding team boss [compared to say Frank Williams] and knows precisely what type of support drivers need through various stages of their career. He is acutely aware of what Lewis will need in his first season, and he's also acutely aware of what situations will best develop his young protoge.

I honestly believe that Lewis could not ask for a better start to his F1 career than this. If he can bring the car home in the points regularly, he will have had a triumphant season.

Marbot · 26 Nov 2006, 12:47 (Ref:1775251)

Teams don't build cars around their drivers (they aren't that clever).They build a car to their own design parameters (weight distribution etc),and then let the drivers do the best they can with the set up of the car.Schumi's cars were not designed specifically as "pointy" cars.They just went better that way.

davyboy · 26 Nov 2006, 13:00 (Ref:1775261)

Cars are developed around a myriad of factors, one of which is driver input. Schumacher clearly had a major level of influence over the driver input that was factored into design of all Ferraris that came from Maranello during his time there... which is why they generally worked better for him than his team mates. It was more than just set-up.

Knowlesy · 26 Nov 2006, 14:43 (Ref:1775298)

The cars are built very much around drivers, to maximise performance. The car is like an extension of the drivers body (so they say) and thus will work better if it is tailored to requirements. From the seat fittings to the car balance.

Schumacher always wanted an edgy, nervous car and his engineers built it so. Kimi Raikkonen prefers an understeering front end and his wish is the teams command. It is more and more the way these days.

Marbot · 26 Nov 2006, 15:49 (Ref:1775306)

Bob Bell and Pat Symonds may disagree.

Very recent autosport interview.

"BB: All I can say is that I don't think we've elected to go down a particular way with the design of the car's weight distribution in order to complement Fernando's driving style. I think Fernando's driving style is accommodated more within the set-up parameters."

"PS: Exactly. As we were saying earlier about designing cars for different tyres, there's a sort of motor racing myth about designing cars for different drivers - we're simply not that clever. As you develop a car, a driver's input may push things in a certain direction but not something as fundamental as weight distribution."

Knowlesy · 26 Nov 2006, 15:57 (Ref:1775311)

Oh, I'm sure they don't build the car in it's entirety around a driver. That would be too complex. I think the engineers are clever enough to do it, but it would be too time consuming and detailed to get the cars ready for the season. And you need some flexibility for the teams other driver of course.

But they do build the cars around a driver as much as they can, within reason. I'm quite sure of that. It depends how you interpret it I guess.

davyboy · 26 Nov 2006, 17:36 (Ref:1775346)

But they're only talking about weight distribution... there's a million and one other factors that go into car design and construction.

... sorry Lewis... this is way off topic on your thread here...

Knowlesy · 26 Nov 2006, 19:33 (Ref:1775398)

Well, I suppose it has evolved, what with the worry over Alonso's car being difficult for Hamilton.

I think he'll be OK. The car he will not worry about, Alonso is the problem.

JeremySmith · 26 Nov 2006, 21:12 (Ref:1775452)

Is the concept not to build a neutral car from the get go, and then tweak to driver preference?

Raven · 26 Nov 2006, 21:41 (Ref:1775461)

Designers and engineers can't get to wrapped up in what drivers want. They might be able to build a car that compliments a driver's style down to the ground, but it's no good if the car is 2 seconds off the pace.

It's the drivers who need to adapt. Contrary to what some people think, Fernando Alonso has amazing dexterity. He can make an under-steering car work just as well as a nervous over-steery car. Check out his dominant F3000 win at Spa in 2000. The car was "stepping out" all over the place. Then of course he jumped into the Jaguar mid-2002 and out-paced regular drivers de la Rosa and Irvine. http://forix.autosport.com/gpt.php?l...r=20029047&c=0

Knowlesy · 26 Nov 2006, 21:51 (Ref:1775468)

Oh yes, absolutely. The best drivers can adapt anyways. It is just a tiny bit more work for them.

Hence Lewis will survive.

bosch! · 27 Nov 2006, 07:03 (Ref:1775646)

Didnt Rubins b1tch about the Honda braking system being built for the gentle, well more progressive, style of JB after having learnt the agressive style of braking system that Ferarri built for Shummi..

I guess that, as has been said above, good drivers can adapt.

MrTTraces · 27 Nov 2006, 10:34 (Ref:1775776)

Call me a cynical old man but how much of this is 'marketing' driven. The first coloured gentlemen in F1. It's worth a lot of money to Mclaren.

Don't get me wrong he is a talented individual and will make a big impact in F1 but i feel a year as a test driver would be more suitable for him then a race seat in 2008.

I would have liked to have seen Pafett get the drive with Hamilton as a test driver.

Ron knows best i guess

**Bononi** · 27 Nov 2006, 10:44 (Ref:1775782)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTTraces

Call me a cynical old man but how much of this is 'marketing' driven. The first coloured gentlemen in F1. It's worth a lot of money to Mclaren.

Uhn ? Not quite sure of what you're talking about.

outflat · 27 Nov 2006, 10:48 (Ref:1775785)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTTraces

Call me a cynical old man but how much of this is 'marketing' driven. The first coloured gentlemen in F1. It's worth a lot of money to Mclaren.

Disgusting suggestion.

Lewis has been involved with McLaren for about ten years and has consistently demonstrated his talent.

Ron Dennis has said his colour is an irrelevance, and rightly so.

I certainly don't imagine they'll be marketing him in the way you suggest - which borders on racism, frankly.

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