[DTM] DTM 2020

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

It needs a shot in the arm. BTCC had it's dark period with thread bare grids and recovered.

Problem with DTM is big thirsty massively powerful cars are not in fitting with todays world, or at least todays Europe.

How much longer will BMW and Mercedes stick around? Audi has gone away to play electric, BMW has previously said Formula E is an objective when the technology allows a car to run race distance. At the rate of current battery development I'd say we're getting close to that.

Will Mercedes stay in a one make series? Can't see it.

Will we end up with grids full of private teams running ex works cars?

mercedes are not even in the dtm

[bella]

i'm starting a one-man campaign for dtm to be converted to a gt3 sprint series.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by bella

i'm starting a one-man campaign for dtm to be converted to a gt3 sprint series.

Would be the cheapest and quickest way to get larger grids again.
It's not very sympathetic to GT Masters.

[Matt K]

It's a huge huge shame and I feel a bit devastated. A bit ridiculous on R-Motorsport's behalf because they split with HWA months ago and just now they announce their withdrawal despite claiming they will remain just a few weeks ago.

The biggest problem is that DTM remains very very expensive for customer teams which could fill up the grid a bit even in case of two manufacturers. If there are 6+6 factory cars and four customer teams we have 20 cars on the grid and quite a variety (I know, two manufacturers only but a few different teams).

I think what Berger is doing is heading in the very right direction when it comes to internationalisation, calendar, regulations (e.g. no ballast), etc and judging by these things there's something fresh about today's DTM. But unfortunately after Mercedes exit it's become difficult to find new manufacturers and this is where the problem lies. DTM should be cheaper and more open to customer teams. Something like European Supercars. Making it a GT3 series is a bit too radical maybe but something close to this would be perfectly fine. Like combination of GT3 and Supercars.

[mark_l]

I think that part of the problem is not the cost of the cars but the cost of the hospitality and the spread of the series.

The 2020 calendar takes in 10 events, but 6 of those are outside of Germany. The 2 manufacturers involved are German and the name of the series says what it is 'Deutsche' German it seems madness to have the majority of the races outside of the home market.

The hospitality is insane, it is F1 levels of hospitality units for what is in effect a domestic series. The ITC collapsed because of the costs of going around the world and the levels of hospitality involved far exceeded any returns in car sales/promotion.

I fear the DTM will again collapse.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

mercedes are not even in the dtm

My bad I'm mixing my Germans up... and suffering age confusion. Shows it must have been a couple of years since I watched last!

My point remains though: BMW have an eye on Formula E, Audi won't be staying much longer given the thought processes at Wolfsburg.

[porsche962fan]

and to think back in the days DTM once had near 40 cars grid and really awesome cars which looked close to the road cars....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=606oV8boomE

[FIRE]

Full focus on manufacturers is great when you have them, but with less interest from them…

Unfortunaly the Japanese have zero interest.

They should have focus more on private teams years ago, now it's to late I am afraid.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

and to think back in the days DTM once had near 40 cars grid and really awesome cars which looked close to the road cars....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=606oV8boomE

Would love to see something like this again.

BTCC like technical rules but 50 bhp more and RWD...3-Series, A4, C-Class.

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by FIRE

Would love to see something like this again.

BTCC like technical rules but 50 bhp more and RWD...3-Series, A4, C-Class.

That would be awesome. And then use something similar for WTCR, obviously it's great at the moment but a Hyundai i30 doesn't quite say World Touring Car to me compared to the Australian, South American, Chinese "touring" cars etc!

[Matt K]

A new possibility has emerged - HWA's boss, Hans Werner Aufrecht wants his company to run the Aston Martin project - there are now five Vantages as the additional one was built over the off-season and they haven't been sold to China. One of the biggest hurdles is the fact that R-Motorsport holds Aston Martin's license to run the team and three-year deal is allegedly in place. There are some fierce discussions between HWA and R-Motorsport (we can assume both parties are not particularly kind to each other) and HWA would need to find money to run the Aston team in DTM. But Berger is working on that. Who knows, maybe we will see Astons this year?

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by Matt K

A new possibility has emerged - HWA's boss, Hans Werner Aufrecht wants his company to run the Aston Martin project - there are now five Vantages as the additional one was built over the off-season and they haven't been sold to China. One of the biggest hurdles is the fact that R-Motorsport holds Aston Martin's license to run the team and three-year deal is allegedly in place. There are some fierce discussions between HWA and R-Motorsport (we can assume both parties are not particularly kind to each other) and HWA would need to find money to run the Aston team in DTM. But Berger is working on that. Who knows, maybe we will see Astons this year?

Sounds like a long shot, but would be cool to see the Astons back again

[Matt K]

It definitely is but let's hope they will be able to work it out. If R Motorsport can't then someone else may run Aston's programme especially given the manufacturer was positive about "their" participation.

[Juntos]

After what R-Motorsport promised and did not deliver to DTM fans, it would be good if they would handle the rights to HWA asap and foc. If you can accept losing, you can't win.

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by Juntos

After what R-Motorsport promised and did not deliver to DTM fans, it would be good if they would handle the rights to HWA asap and foc. If you can accept losing, you can't win.

What do you think they owed DTM fans?

[Matt K]

To say they owe anything is probably an overstatement but I agree with Juntos. R Motorsport was seen as sort of a DTM's saviour with third manufacturer and claims coming from Aston Martin's CEO that they plan long-term future in DTM with possible increase of factory support. To see them moving out less than three months before start of the season, saying they thought it over and decided it doesn't make sense it's a massive disappointment. Didn't they see 'no sense' before deciding to enter?

[Evantra]

Originally Posted by Matt K

A new possibility has emerged - HWA's boss, Hans Werner Aufrecht wants his company to run the Aston Martin project......

Afraid not. AM say no https://www.motorsport.com/dtm/news/...e-hwa/4678087/

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by Evantra

Afraid not. AM say no https://www.motorsport.com/dtm/news/...e-hwa/4678087/

Life is a boomerang.

They only say 'no' to a factory effort -> “There are no plans for Aston Martin Lagonda to become a works supplier of the DTM series,” spokesperson for the British manufacturer told

AM is smart enough to understand that if HWA enters their cars it is a gift from the Gods!

[Matt K]

I'm afraid under no circumstances will Aston give permission to use the cars. I know they spoke about works entry and HWA Aston wouldn't be truly factory team (R Motorsport wasn't either) but HWA would need to get Aston's license and I believe this won't happen.

Let alone the fact cars are unfit to race and HWA doesn't have financing put in place for a season in DTM. Shame. Hope was slim but now there is no hope at all

[NaBUru38]

If the championships continues, please add pitting windows. It's incredibly boring to see half the grid 30 seconds behind the leader on lap 3.

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

If the championships continues, please add pitting windows. It's incredibly boring to see half the grid 30 seconds behind the leader on lap 3.

Somehow I agree with you. But I'm sure Herr Berger is now more worried about getting 2 or 4 extra cars in the grid. A 14-car grid will make DTM look ridiculous. The best thing about the future is that it comes one day at a time.

[Csaba]

Audi have confirmed the same 6 drivers as last year.
https://www.touringcartimes.com/2020...20-dtm-season/

And a rumour is circulating, that Aberdein is the favourite for the remaining BMW seat, so a customer team might come with the money of Kubica involved, we'll see.

[Matt K]

According to Motorsport Magazin talks with Toyota and Honda are ongoing about them joining DTM in 2020 and chances seem reasonable. Nissan's entrance is out of question. Toyota's participation would be even more sensible as they will be able to promote their new Supra.

Aberdein being in a factory BMW is very likely while Kubica will be a customer BMW driver.

[S griffin]

That’s an encouraging sign if those two manufacturers are looking to join for this season. Will help keep the numbers up at this difficult time

[Matt K]

Yes, we've got 12 factory seats, 3 customer (I think Kubica is in for 99%) so 15. If Toyota and Honda field two cars each, we have 19. That's a reasonable number and a chance that both Japanese manufacturers may expand in the future. Also, according to Motorsport Magazin, HWA-Aston Martin marriage is still not ruled out. However, as far as I'm concerned this won't work out.