07 AMRS-3 Winton (28-29th April)

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by Chucky

Conflicts of interest in an AMRS class?

You couldn't imagine such a thing, could you?

This sort of comment should probably be left alone but--- it is very easy to criticise those who actually do the work-- and they will usually be people that do have a vested interest. That should not and does not disqualify them from doing the job. Most of the categories referred to have had to build( and are building) their own infrastructure-- this does take time. To point out the obvious in another place-- they have had 50 years at it and still create mayhem( refer to various threads on these forums) . The AMRS has come from a standing start just 15 months ago-- so the negatives have to be considered in that light. It is pretty easy to lob and start a glad back of criticism that has not properly considered the many issues.
So I guess I am saying you glib comment is ill conceived.

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

That is not really the case---- all GT car are eligible for Intermarque-- the reverse is not the case-- and those that might technically be able to run are contained to a totally uncompetative(not mildly) position in GT so effectively they cannot run-- they are certainly not wanted there.Intermarque makes all welcome-- a very fundamental difference.

Still mostly the same cars, regardless of what could theoretically turn up.

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

The back of the F3 field is already in that situation. FWIW whn an amalgamation was previously discussed it was F 3 that wanted the FH cars constrained so they would be behind the F3 cars . That was really smart idea that!

Yes, it was. From that decision, one of those classes has become an internationally recognised championship and one has become a post-historic.

[Oaksnaf]

Is Best "showing them" at PTCC by not competing after the weight conflict at Winton. Surely his departure didn't make any difference to the way the weekend went and at that level of motorsport isn't it all a bit of fun?

But what is the difference between winning Class C and finishing third in Class B, aside from the ego factor?

Wishbone, did you happen to catch the stickers they had on their Touring Cars? Wasn't it "Whyoon wins in a 5 litre" or something similar along those lines?

Was certainly an interesting fued.

[wishbone]

Originally Posted by Oaksnaf

Wishbone, did you happen to catch the stickers they had on their Touring Cars? Wasn't it "Whyoon wins in a 5 litre" or something similar along those lines?

Was certainly an interesting fued.

Yes i don remeber the posters at wakefield park last year, I was also at the Presentation Dinner and they were walking around with the posters stuck to there shirts.

the interesting thing is that because amrs did nothning about it, krause is gone.... another car lost.....

[PVDA]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

The AMRS has come from a standing start just 15 months ago-- so the negatives have to be considered in that light. It is pretty easy to lob and start a glad back of criticism that has not properly considered the many issues.

I agree that they've gone a long way in 15 months and the series has so much potential (I've worked every Winton, Calder & AIR round so far and away from home events aren't cheap) BUT to see the frustration on the faces of local officials trying to run events or check compliance and hearing the same complaints being voiced since last year and no action being taken by the people running the AMRS you have to start wondering.

There MUST be a rule book or set of guidelines for competitors and officials to follow otherwise the current complaints will continue and people will leave the series.

I know of several officials who are getting sick of it and just cant be heard by the people running the AMRS, perhaps by mentioning it here the people who run the series will see it and look into fixing the issues mentioned here and elsewhere.

[Silver 3]

As far as I am aware there are rules in place in the categories I am familiar with.It is not all the same for each category-- some are independently managed and if you are refering to scrutineering - that has been a point of misunderstanding. Situation is no different to other place where category management is responsible for technical issues-- scrutineering is there for safety check.

[rms]

Originally Posted by Chucky

Yes, it was. From that decision, one of those classes has become an internationally recognised championship and one has become a post-historic.

Yes, one is an internationally recognised, restricted, junior class. The other still holds the lap records!

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by rms

Yes, one is an internationally recognised, restricted, junior class. The other still holds the lap records!

It's been seven years since those were set. Move on.

[rms]

Originally Posted by Chucky

It's been seven years since those were set. Move on.

I thought to 'move on' was to lap quicker. Gee - wont be long and we will be back to F/Vee.

[grairy]

Re, the Darren Best Focus saga @ AMRS Winton;
As the technical officer for Production car racing I take offence to the comments made and take this opportunity to respond.
FACTS;
1. It was NEVER a question of what weight we REQUIRED it to be (it has always been, what weight the manufacturer has complienced)
2. Classification is determined by the power to weight ratio and based on the documentation supplied by the manufacturer a FORD FOCUS ST170 is a class B car in our catagory (no matter which way you do the calculations.
3. The reason why Darren Best did not see any of the documentation is because he refused to accept the findings and took his "bat & ball" (& his Focus) and went home without even wanting to view them.
4. On his original acceptance into the APCC (CAMS series) back in 2004 the car was originally classified as a class "C" car.......BECAUSE IN THAT SERIES WE ALSO HAD A CLASS "D". It was later when the APCC re-classified the fields that they decided to have only A, B, and C classes that he was put into class C.
5. The "Technical Regulations" for our series ARE printed in the PTCC Competition handbook on pages 16 to 21 inclusive.
6. I, personally take exception to the comments that I have a conflict of interest because I had 2 class C Protons entered in the event (both leased out) and I would certainly step aside if and when any of those vehicles came under question.

7. The "DOCUMENT" in question (so called wrong imformation) is supplied by EVERY VEHICLE MANUFACTURER to the Australian government to enable that manufacturer to be able to obtain an AUSTRALIAN COMPLIENCE PLATE for EVERY vehicle to be registered in Australia...........so are we led to believe that manufacturers all over the world are telling fibs to our government!!!!!!!

8. In finishing, let me say that if people really do their homework (like many have done) and select a car that has the lowest power to weight ratio in each class they certainly have the edge on those that are at the other end of the scale..............It all comes down to personal vehicle selection.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope this clears a few things up.

Graham Roylett

[Oaksnaf]

Graham, between the last round at Wakefield in 2006 and Winton last weekend, what has changed to make Best a Class B car now instead of Class C?

[grairy]

Nothing happened.(it was a class B car then and is still a class B car)

At the last round of 2006 the Focus was classified & classed as a "B" class car. This was the first time the Focus was entered for a round of the PTCC and there was no problem at that stage (everyone was happy), as a matter of fact the Focus was VERY competitive in class "B" and in the last race of the day finished 3rd OUTRIGHT behind the BMW130 & the Tibruon & actually displacing the peugeot 206 of McIntosh from winning the 2006 championship so there should be NO Question of its competitivness.

For the first round of 2007 we did NOT have a technical officer for the initial entries and the PTCC was shown a paper that supported that the Focus should have been a class "C" car and was graded accordingly pending further investigation to support that documentation. With so many "variances" in the documented weight from different souces ALL over the world it was then decided to use the "officiall" documentation as supplied to the Australian government by ALL manufacturers for ALL vehicles.......NOT JUST THE FOCUS.

The PTCC is only in the second year of existance and we are trying very hard to make this series an affordable & exciting one and it appears to be the general oppinion of everyone that "Rules are Rules" and sometimes some of us may not like them or agree with them, but as in society we HAVE to obey them.

[Silver 3]

Well said Graham. I think the point that should be made-- and I am not particularly referring to this case-- it is too easy for competitors to be a bit precious in these sort of cases. It can take time( eg to clarify etc) to get things right and it is unreasonable to jump to extended conclusions and bag the whole series as a result. Many of these issues are working themselves out-- part by part-- and it is a whole lot more sensible to give it that chance-- and keep racing in the meantime.

[Chronicle]

It is called "growing pains" silver

[grairy]

Originally Posted by wishbone

Look i am no expert but from what has been posted here the car is 44 KG under the wieght claimed by ford. Iam Sorry but from what i have read here the car was under weight




Strange comment to be made, i just had a look on there website and you can download them. it states in there an again i am not a expert in this field but "All vechiles must be with the presribed wieght of the production model" so by reading this and Darrens own post the cars was 44 KG under weight.

It would be interesting to here from the PTCC on this.

It was NEVER a question of the Ford Focus being underweight.....in actual fact it was overweight. The question was "what class should it be in" and based on our "officiall" figures the car IS a class "B" car. The question put to us was to put some weight in the car to make it heavier so it could be classed as a "C" class car which we refused to do...............The V8 falcon is not as quick as the BMW130I in class "A" so should we say to Nat Willmington "ADD SOME WEIGHT " & you can run in class "B" and you should be able to win the class "B" championship..................WHERE WILL IT END.

Let me know everyones thoughts..........

[mtpanorama]

There will always be those competitors who buy a car thinking it is going to be the fastest in its class, and when it isnt they are looking for any reason to make it competitive against the other cars in the class. Not every car can be competitive and maybe some people should do their homewrk a bit better before investing all their money in something that is not completely competitive.
I like a diffenet mix of cars and it is great to see different makes and models out there, but unfortunately some are just better than others......live with it or dont play.

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by mtpanorama

There will always be those competitors who buy a car thinking it is going to be the fastest in its class, and when it isnt they are looking for any reason to make it competitive against the other cars in the class. Not every car can be competitive and maybe some people should do their homewrk a bit better before investing all their money in something that is not completely competitive.
I like a diffenet mix of cars and it is great to see different makes and models out there, but unfortunately some are just better than others......live with it or dont play.

That is all fair comment -- but-- one of the things that no one likes to see is dissaffected competitors - justified or unjustified-- everyone makes a fair financial and time commitment to go racing( or to officiate etc) and a major plank of the AMRS is involvement satisfaction. All that leads me to the pain I feel for all involved when these sort of issues arise-- let's hope it can be resolved to everyone's satisfaction.

[Oaksnaf]

My mistake Graham I checked out the 2006 pointscore table and it had Best Class C, I didn't scroll any further down to see the break up of classes. So it's just a typo on the website.

Personally if you want to stop people from adding weight to drop a category, I would work out what is the weight that would drop them down a class;

A basic example

The registered weight is 1000kg for a car in Class B if they were to add 200kg that would make them a Class C car.

So why not just make the maximum weight for the car 1200kg so that it can't drop a class. But that is exceptionally drastic!!

Filtering through was that Best had not even paid his entry fee yet, is this true Graham?

Also howcome you never got a practice session according to Natsoft and went straight into qualifying?

[grairy]

We did have a practice session but natsoft had all the car numbers and drivers out of sequence so maybe they didn't put them on natsoft because of the confusion (we at the track seemed to be the only ones who knew).

As for the Darren Best thing, his financial arrangements with the AMRS are nobodies business so I dont think that should even be discussed on a forum.

I, personally, like Darren and I think his dedication and commitments to motor racing should be applauded. He has his beliefs and there is nothing wrong with that, it is unfortunate that those of the PTCC are slightly different and we have written a personal letter to Darren. I do hope that Darren can see his way clear to continue to race in our series and as I have stated in other posts I believe he IS quite competitive in class "B".

As many people have stated in these and other forums, nobody wants to see an unhappy competitor and especially if they are lost from any series.

Lets hope common scence will prevail................

[roger ward]

Mr Roylett ,

I have not been on this site for so long , in fact I received a email from Ten tenth only last week so I have started to have a look around . Seems like there was a lot of fuss at your last meeting . I must say your responce to the different post was fair , well presented and humble .

You are a credit to the Production Touring Cars .

[richie17]

The AMRS has new wallpapers out. link Love the Mustang one.
Great to see Oz BOSS has a new sponsor with POWRgard Mouthguards.

[User Name]

Originally Posted by richie17

The AMRS has new wallpapers out. link Love the Mustang one.
Great to see Oz BOSS has a new sponsor with POWRgard Mouthguards.

This will upset all the OZ Boss baggers, there are some people out there who have confidence in the category.