2018 TCR UK - Page 3

BSchneiderFan · 15 Jul 2017, 14:43 (Ref:3751463)

I think my problem with the current crop of BTCC drivers is that - for some very understandable reasons - few of them have proved themselves on a wider stage. Turks and Neal are two of the small number who have. So it's hard to judge the others in the round. And of course we hardly have any foreign drivers any more.

**FIRE** · 15 Jul 2017, 15:03 (Ref:3751466)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Thats a shame.

Why?

The next BMW 1-Series will be FWD.

**FIRE** · 15 Jul 2017, 15:12 (Ref:3751468)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt K

If you say there are no names involved in BTCC, imagine what drivers will be in TCR but I doubt that we will see any significant names. Moreover, the best of these drivers will aim at BTCC or TCR International. TCR UK won't make high level racing.
What about your statement that neither are touring cars? What do you mean?

Except for the old garde most drivers were nobodies before they entered BTCC. Also the likes of Stefano Comini and Josh Files before their success in TCR.

And in the past we have seen talented drivers who were not able to raise the funding for BTCC.

Tracsmart · 15 Jul 2017, 22:28 (Ref:3751534)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

Except for the old garde most drivers were nobodies before they entered BTCC. Also the likes of Stefano Comini and Josh Files before their success in TCR.

And in the past we have seen talented drivers who were not able to raise the funding for BTCC.

Absolutely agree. There are numerous talented drivers who cannot raise the funding for BTCC and to many who can without the talent, as we have seen for to many seasons.
TCR UK will provide the opportunity for talented drivers to feature in a saloon car championship with a reasonable budget.
Lets not kid ourselves however that it is another feeder for BTCC, that still remains to be cheque book racing without talent as we have experienced over many seasons. But it will still be an opportunity for many of talented drivers to star

Sodemo · 16 Jul 2017, 07:17 (Ref:3751579)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

Why?

The next BMW 1-Series will be FWD.

Yep, a travesty in my eyes. I guess there is the 2 or 3 series, though I'm not sure if they are eligible.

**FIRE** · 16 Jul 2017, 14:46 (Ref:3751802)

2 Series is a coupe so not allowed.
3 Series too big.

JoshFiles · 18 Jul 2017, 20:27 (Ref:3752579)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobJones

Very interesting read. Slower, cheaper, customer cars for use as a BTCC feeder series. If it's on the BritishGT support list, all 26 track-side fans will have fun.

Hi Bob,

So you are aware TCR cars are actually as fast if not slightly faster than BTCC cars, cost 4 x less and BTCC is also a customer series realistically as well. The manufacture teams of BTCC are not as 'manufacture' as you may think and most of the grid are privateers with a lot of money.

I'm sure TCR will be a success, the cars are much better to drive

Josh

andy97 · 18 Jul 2017, 21:00 (Ref:3752596)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshFiles

BTCC is also a customer series realistically as well. The manufacture teams of BTCC are not as 'manufacture' as you may think and most of the grid are privateers with a lot of money.

Indeed, and let's not forget that all BTCC cars are customers of RML for the spec parts, and a significant number are customers of Swindon for the engines, no matter what the badge or bodyshell is meant to be.

fergus_r · 18 Jul 2017, 22:07 (Ref:3752618)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 850Estate

Just thinking how many people current own a TCR spec car in the UK? Off the top of my head:

Stewart Lines (Leon)
Finlay Crocker (Civic)
Andrew Morrison (Leon)

Club racer Darren Goes has a current-spec Leon, regularly used in MSV Team/Trackday Trophy- whether he could afford or even want to do TCR is another matter.

Bcarr6 · 18 Jul 2017, 23:17 (Ref:3752632)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshFiles

Hi Bob,

So you are aware TCR cars are actually as fast if not slightly faster than BTCC cars, cost 4 x less and BTCC is also a customer series realistically as well. The manufacture teams of BTCC are not as 'manufacture' as you may think and most of the grid are privateers with a lot of money.

I'm sure TCR will be a success, the cars are much better to drive

Josh

I personally enjoy TCR more than BTCC, there's something about how scrappy and light TCR cars are on the right circuit that is really enjoyable to watch.

And I think most of the main UK circuits will really suit TCR

And, welcome to Ten Tenths Josh, great to hear your insight!

V8 Fireworks · 19 Jul 2017, 01:40 (Ref:3752660)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

Neither series are really 'touring cars'.

Of course TCR are touring cars! They use a production bodyshell, production based-engine (completely stock engine actually, aside from tune), and production-based suspension (e.g., the Civic hatch uses the rear torsion beam like the road model, unlike the control double-wishbone in NGTC). Maybe they could use stock gearbox, but I'm sure they have a reason for using the paddle-ised sequential racing gearbox (more reliable I suppose).

How is TCR not a pure touring car?

V8 Fireworks · 19 Jul 2017, 01:43 (Ref:3752661)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FIRE

3 Series too big.

3 series is the same size as Levorg so should be competitive enough in NGTC trim.

V8 Fireworks · 19 Jul 2017, 01:44 (Ref:3752662)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

I personally enjoy TCR more than BTCC, there's something about how scrappy and light TCR cars are on the right circuit that is really enjoyable to watch.

TCR are just as heavy (or heavier) than BTCC are they not? About 1300kg? (300kg more than Super Tourers)

touring fan01 · 19 Jul 2017, 08:05 (Ref:3752705)

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

TCR are just as heavy (or heavier) than BTCC are they not? About 1300kg? (300kg more than Super Tourers)

yes TCR is just a little heavier. 1285kg vs 1280kg for BTCC

Akrapovic · 19 Jul 2017, 08:12 (Ref:3752707)

I don't think we can claim the 3 series is too big and then look back at Super Touring and say it was amazing.

What are BTCC laptimes like compared to TCR? Is there anywhere they've both raced that can be compared?

Bramzel · 19 Jul 2017, 08:20 (Ref:3752710)

We'll, the current 3-series isn't exactly the same size as the Supertouring E36.

Akrapovic · 19 Jul 2017, 08:35 (Ref:3752713)

20 cm longer. Same length as the 98 Nissan Primera and slightly shorter than the 98 Honda Accord.

Speed-King · 19 Jul 2017, 08:44 (Ref:3752716)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I don't think we can claim the 3 series is too big and then look back at Super Touring and say it was amazing.

What are BTCC laptimes like compared to TCR? Is there anywhere they've both raced that can be compared?

I don't think there's a direct comparison, but we could use the Porsche Cup cars or GT3s as a proxy, since those cars race in Britain and in mainland Europe. I'm on the phone right now, and won't have much time for it today, but I can have a look at it tomorrow!

MissClarrpz · 19 Jul 2017, 10:47 (Ref:3752752)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I don't think we can claim the 3 series is too big and then look back at Super Touring and say it was amazing.

What are BTCC laptimes like compared to TCR? Is there anywhere they've both raced that can be compared?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissClarrpz

They are reasonably close. Over a 1 minute lap TCR is 1.5-2 seconds slower. NGTC have about 20bhp more so that's probably why

Trust me I have accurate data. If you want exact numbers TCR is roughly 2.9% slower (last season at least). So far this season TCR is 3.7% slower but at the moment that's very inaccurate

andy97 · 19 Jul 2017, 11:09 (Ref:3752758)

In many respects the actual speeds of the cars relative to each other is irrelevant if the actual racing is good (and clean) and their are lots of competitive cars.

Akrapovic · 19 Jul 2017, 11:30 (Ref:3752766)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissClarrpz

Trust me I have accurate data. If you want exact numbers TCR is roughly 2.9% slower (last season at least). So far this season TCR is 3.7% slower but at the moment that's very inaccurate

Thanks for that.

Couple of seconds on TV isn't going to be noticeable. To the fan watching from home, these will lap visually the same as BTCC cars.

I think others are right. TCR might be pitching this as a feeder series and have every intention of being one, but this could end up being direct competition whether they want it to be or not.

BobJones · 19 Jul 2017, 14:42 (Ref:3752805)

As a spectator, trackside, the extra noise of the BTCC vs the quiet TCR cars (where the brake squeal is the loudest sound) makes a big difference to the spectacle.

Sodemo · 19 Jul 2017, 17:01 (Ref:3752832)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobJones

As a spectator, trackside, the extra noise of the BTCC vs the quiet TCR cars (where the brake squeal is the loudest sound) makes a big difference to the spectacle.

Perhaps, however nothing can beat the NA growl from the supertourers and S2000 cars. I have had to learn to love the turbo era, however I still long for those buzzing 8500 rpm motors back.

The one thing I miss is the variety in sounds. OK so the Honda NGTC does have a different sound, however the rest of the grid I cant tell apart. With ST cars I could tell every car just from the exhaust or induction sound.

**FIRE** · 19 Jul 2017, 22:15 (Ref:3752905)

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

3 series is the same size as Levorg so should be competitive enough in NGTC trim.

I was talking about TCR. Unlikely to see 3 Series in TCR.

**FIRE** · 19 Jul 2017, 22:19 (Ref:3752907)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshFiles

Hi Bob,

So you are aware TCR cars are actually as fast if not slightly faster than BTCC cars, cost 4 x less and BTCC is also a customer series realistically as well. The manufacture teams of BTCC are not as 'manufacture' as you may think and most of the grid are privateers with a lot of money.

I'm sure TCR will be a success, the cars are much better to drive

Josh

Welcome on Ten Tenths.
Are you considering TCR UK for next season?

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