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31 Aug 2013, 02:55 (Ref:3296442) | #51 | ||
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
31 Aug 2013, 08:03 (Ref:3296482) | #52 | ||
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Here's a look at the current state of affairs.
Perhaps ramp to ramp jumps will be included at future events. Or maybe a big swinging pendulum you have to avoid, like in miniature golf. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPkq...embedded#at=11 |
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31 Aug 2013, 10:08 (Ref:3296495) | #53 | ||
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31 Aug 2013, 10:10 (Ref:3296496) | #54 | |||
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31 Aug 2013, 11:05 (Ref:3296506) | #55 | |||
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I thought the pendulum might have been a subtle reference to Edgar Allan Poe. |
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
1 Sep 2013, 06:09 (Ref:3296975) | #56 | ||
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Yes, and a location at pit entry would be most apropos.
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1 Sep 2013, 12:40 (Ref:3297046) | #57 | ||
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
3 Sep 2013, 14:52 (Ref:3298354) | #58 | ||
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When form follows function, it looks good. I think F1 cars look great, as do modern F3 cars. They're built to do a certain thing by competing manufacturers, not look good, and they look all the better for it.
The DW12 puts aesthetic before function, and looks all the worse for it. Most spec series take 'artistic license' with their cars, which is expected. |
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'My lovely horse, running through the fields! Where are you going, with your fetlocks blowing in the wind?' |
3 Sep 2013, 14:58 (Ref:3298358) | #59 | |||
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
3 Sep 2013, 16:49 (Ref:3298399) | #60 | ||
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To be fair, Bourdais has been on the podium three times recently, and is still pretty popular... but yes, definitely not as popular as the Helios and TK's.
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3 Sep 2013, 18:42 (Ref:3298436) | #61 | ||
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I think both the modern f1 car and the DW look awful. What's nice on the Indycar looks awful on the F1 car and vice versa, IMO. With the contemporary F1 car, 20 or so cars with frowning, gaping yawns flying past in sequence looks like high speed scaffolding what with that horrific raised nose.
The old Tyrrell looks good. It's small, nimble and agile and yes fragile. Even just visually it harks back to an era when cars actually broke down on reliability grounds. Anyway. AJA has his"narcotics" redemption story and Helios is a giggling spiderman that climbs fences. We just need to convince Franchitti to do backflips every time he gets out of his car and Will Power giving acidic wisecracks from his brothers comedy routine and this series might just turn heads again... |
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If I had asked my customer what they wanted, they would've said a faster horse. -Henry Ford |
3 Sep 2013, 19:44 (Ref:3298463) | #62 | |
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I agree with the guy above, F1 cars have IMO looked like pure **** since 2009 (probably the 50th time im saying this) and Indycars have been looking like **** since 2012.
In F1 the cars had the best look back in 2004-2005-2006 (with no wingtips and extra aerodynamic devices). I think the IR-05 looked good in oval setup but horrible in road course setup. Too bad the former Champ Car teams couldn't adapt their DP01s to Indycar regulations in 2008. That car looked so good in road course setup. I wonder why Indycar announced aero packages for ovals ONLY, I mean, You could turn a RB8 into a RB9 by replacing minor things (diffuser, wings etc.). |
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3 Sep 2013, 20:45 (Ref:3298490) | #63 | ||
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I honestly didnt like the last Indy car, the dw12 has increased my interest in indycars again.i find them easier to watch.i just don't like the rear bumpers but that's really it.
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RACE CAR: noun: an automobile built or modified for racing. |
3 Sep 2013, 22:49 (Ref:3298574) | #64 | |||
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I wonder how the Dallara IR5 would have coped with the chicane at Baltimore? |
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
3 Sep 2013, 22:54 (Ref:3298578) | #65 | |
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9 Sep 2013, 03:13 (Ref:3300785) | #66 | ||
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I loved the Lola concepts. But I'd like to see those huge side pods replaced, or at least that ugly rear valance behind the wheels. It's an insult to open wheel racing, the rear of the car may as well be closed in body work.
Maybe people will finally start making body work and it won't look as ugly. Would love to see more engines on board too. |
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9 Sep 2013, 13:44 (Ref:3301002) | #67 | ||
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I'm still surprised that there's debates about the DW12.
Not everyone's going to like it but it's what we've got. I completely lost interest in Indycar when all the cars were Dallara-Hondas. The cars looked ages and I found it hard to get excited about the Indy 500 being a one-make challenge. I'm slowly getting back into the series and I personally think the cars sound great. I'm not a full convert to the appearance yet but it's something different and the DW12 might look beautiful in 20 years time. Who knows? I know it's never going to happen but I'd give my right arm for IndyCar to race at Rockingham. |
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9 Sep 2013, 15:43 (Ref:3301039) | #68 | |||
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I went to both Rockingham 500s in 2001 and 2002; awesome stuff. Those Reynards and Lolas were in a league of their own. IndyCar should look at Rockingham as a potential race in Europe. |
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
9 Sep 2013, 16:04 (Ref:3301047) | #69 | |||
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So what is it I'm enjoying that everyone else isn't? My guess is that the mis-management of open wheel racing and its decline combined with the rise and rise of NASCAR has meant that whatever IndyCar does, it's perceived as inadequate. Is that accurate? As for Rockingham, I can't really see the teams being persuaded to do it. Besides that, Northamptonshire is an exceedingly short-sighted county that barely sees the benefit of the Grand Prix so I'm not holding my breath for anyone with the vision to make it happen coming along any time soon. |
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9 Sep 2013, 18:43 (Ref:3301114) | #70 | ||
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Quote Gingers4Justice.
I'm both naïve and British, which probably explains my surprise at the debate. As far as I'm concerned, IndyCar is as interesting now as it ever has been since I first started watching US open wheel racing since the first Rockingham race. We're obviously nowhere near CART levels but it's got me interested far more than the IRL ever did. So what is it I'm enjoying that everyone else isn't? My guess is that the mis-management of open wheel racing and its decline combined with the rise and rise of NASCAR has meant that whatever IndyCar does, it's perceived as inadequate. Is that accurate? As for Rockingham, I can't really see the teams being persuaded to do it. Besides that, Northamptonshire is an exceedingly short-sighted county that barely sees the benefit of the Grand Prix so I'm not holding my breath for anyone with the vision to make it happen coming along any time soon. Quote There's no doubt the racing is better but that's got a lot to do with the car. The DW12 is a ground effect car, similar to the Lolas and Reynards of the CART era but no way as well designed. The IR5 was flat bottomed and was designed to produce the awful pack racing that was a feature of IndyCar racing, when it was called the Indy Racing League; the series is still run by the IRL. I don't know if inadequate is the right world to describe the series but the management has certainly been inadequate and there's been a lack of foresight. Hopefully with Derrick Walker on board a lot of this can be rectified. One of the biggest problems facing teams is the cost of the car, which is now higher than originally intended, surprise surprise, as well as having to buy spares from Dallara, which are more expensive than going to a 3rd party. The overall increase in costs has meant the introduction of aero-kits has been delayed. It would be nice to see a race again at Rockingham but realistically I don't see it happening. |
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10 Sep 2013, 09:21 (Ref:3301394) | #71 | ||
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Some people, a small minority. As you say its not the root cause and no one has gone on record and said that they are now not watching because of an opinion on the way the cars look.
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Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film |
10 Sep 2013, 12:50 (Ref:3301468) | #72 | ||
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A poll has never been conducted, so we'll never know whether the minority is small or not, or if indeed it is the majority. True no one has gone on record but there is the old adage, 'people vote with their feet'.
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
10 Sep 2013, 14:58 (Ref:3301506) | #73 | ||
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You don't need a poll and a poll wouldn't be representative as its a psychological thing that most people don't think too much about. It's common sense when you think it over. A series featuring duplicates that are chubby and plastic looking most people won't return to it. It's not a difficult thing to deduce.
It's different if you have a captured audience like F1 and NASCAR but Indycar barely has an audience. You need to turn heads to reengage the audience and the new Dallara life raft doesn't do it. |
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If I had asked my customer what they wanted, they would've said a faster horse. -Henry Ford |
10 Sep 2013, 15:55 (Ref:3301525) | #74 | ||
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People do vote with their feet - and there hasnt been a huge turn around since the DW12 was introduced so there is your answer. Using a sample audience of this forum, its definitely not a majority and unfortunately a few people in the forum cant see beyond such a superficial argument.
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Upon entry into the Bathurst 1000, it should be mandatory to view the compelling "Moffat - Man and the Mountain" film |
10 Sep 2013, 17:09 (Ref:3301558) | #75 | |||
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"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
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