W Series

[gomick]

Chadwick has won 10 of 18 W Series races now, by far the GOAT in that series...

[tux]

Originally Posted by tux

Whos putting up the money for this series?

Nobody.... Presume the FIA/F1 will bail them out.

Im not an expert in finance but i think "net liabilities" is effectivly debt? If so £7.5m of debt looks really bad for the future.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-...ant-financial/

Also noted that they arent using their normal cars this weekend but the Toyota Gazoo Racing series cars from NZ

[kipper]

Originally Posted by tux

Also noted that they arent using their normal cars this weekend but the Toyota Gazoo Racing series cars from NZ

That was always planned. As W Series use sea freight, there was no way of getting the Tatuus-Abarths to the US in time from Singapore. Hence the use of the New Zealand cars instead. The same cars were also used in Spain as the regular ones hadn't been returned from Miami.

[peebee2]

To all those who have always wondered how the financials could possibly make any sense in this series, it seems we have the answer.

They don't.

[Derwent]

It's a great pity. The racing has been good. Better in some cases than F1 and much better than Formula E. Getting Jamie into a F1 car even for testing would help. Motorsport has been lacking good female racers and it needs to be less sexist.
I see no issue from photo shoots, they pay the bills. These days people like Jenson, Nico and Mark have a steady income from promoting fashion so why should not the girls?

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Derwent

It's a great pity. The racing has been good. Better in some cases than F1 and much better than Formula E. Getting Jamie into a F1 car even for testing would help.

The racing has been reasonably good, although the reason for that is the lack of quality and the inconsistency.

Unfortunately, being in the top team, and being the most experienced driver, finishing ninth (and pretty much last) in the Formula Regional Europe championship in 2020 while her team mates finished 1,2,3 in the championship shows the level Jamie is really at.

[Greem]

Originally Posted by peebee2

The racing has been reasonably good, although the reason for that is the lack of quality and the inconsistency.

Unfortunately, being in the top team, and being the most experienced driver, finishing ninth (and pretty much last) in the Formula Regional Europe championship in 2020 while her team mates finished 1,2,3 in the championship shows the level Jamie is really at.

Ah, but...

How many male drivers have chanced their arm in competition of that sort and come up short? A great many, yet almost nobody mentions them.

Somewhere, some time, a female driver will get the chance to race regularly at junior levels for several years against male counterparts and gain the extra racecraft and experience to beat them. Until then, female drivers will always be compared with the best male drivers in any competition they enter, where they should be rated against the worst. In that championship Jamie Chadwick beat two other full season drivers, both of whom have now fallen off the single-seater ladder and taken fairly safe seats in GT and Ligier series instead.

Unfortunately, female drivers seem to do very well in early-series karting (Bambino and the next couple of levels, and into junior tin-top series) but then drop out for a large variety of reasons, a lot of which are down to sponsorship. Also unfortunately, the lack of sponsorship is sometimes said to be because a lot of female drivers drop out - it's a circular problem.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Greem

Ah, but...

How many male drivers have chanced their arm in competition of that sort and come up short? A great many, yet almost nobody mentions them.

Correctly so, and certainly not in connection with nonsensical F1 drives.

Originally Posted by Greem

In that championship Jamie Chadwick beat two other full season drivers, both of whom have now fallen off the single-seater ladder and taken fairly safe seats in GT and Ligier series instead.

Yes, check their then experience levels and the teams they drove for.

[Alessio]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Unfortunately, being in the top team, and being the most experienced driver, finishing ninth (and pretty much last) in the Formula Regional Europe championship in 2020 while her team mates finished 1,2,3 in the championship shows the level Jamie is really at.

I don't necessarily disagree, but just being at Prema doesn't mean that she was receiving equal treatment. Nothing to do with gender, but Chadwick is far from a well-funded racing driver whereas both Petecoff and Leclerc are very well-funded. They could afford more track time in cars, probably spent a lot more time in karts as kids, could afford more/better mechanics/personal trainers/coaches, maybe new chassis throughout the year, etc. Not to downplay their achievements at all, but there are advantages to going racing with more money, especially when you're at an earlier stage in your career.

[peebee2]

So it's been canned. Anyone think it will come back in 2023?

[Akrapovic]

I think it will be back in 2023. Whether or not it should be back is another discussion.

I really don't have a good answer to the problem that W Series is trying to solve, but I don't think W Series is the answer.

Maybe taking the amount of money it cost to run W Series and putting it being 2-3 of the best female drivers and seeing where they get? One problem Jamie Chadwick has is that she's not that good (but equally, not that terrible), but she's hardly going to get the development she needs to get to improve when she wins so easily in a series full of drivers worse than her.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I think it will be back in 2023.

Not sure I can see it. I always suspected the business plan was to bring in external investment and make an early exit from the business with a profit, which was always unlikely.

I wonder now if creditors will be looking for the hardware to pay off debts - not that bringing 16-20 Tatuus F318s to a very limited market is going to realise much.

[Akrapovic]

I think it'll be back in 2023, but not like we've seen it. It's hard to justify flying around the world - but 5 stop European tour with double headers will be much more affordable.

But I wouldn't be surprised if you're right and this is the last we see of it.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I think it'll be back in 2023, but not like we've seen it. It's hard to justify flying around the world - but 5 stop European tour with double headers will be much more affordable.

But I wouldn't be surprised if you're right and this is the last we see of it.

I hope you're right and it comes back.

The wide differential in the driving ability actually makes it fairly watchable.

[Akrapovic]

Yeah. I've been watching some GT4 and BritCar recently. Enjoyable for the same reasons - some stuff that happens is wild.

[NaBUru38]

As long as the top drivers return rather than step up, I'm not interested.

[Tourer]

Can't help feeling that rather than running a W series, it might make more sense to run a W team (or teams) in F3, maybe F2 over time - take the "staircase of talent" approach for W drivers and team crew that JYS took when Paul Stewart Racing was set up.

Mr Coulthard was part of that staircase at PSR, if he's still involved in W Series he can explain it to the others.

To me, there is more potential from that approach to develop talent than there is running a mediocre series with no genuinely pacy competitors - would probably cost similar amount or maybe even less but if developing W talent is the aim, could ultimately be a much better way to go.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I think it will be back in 2023. Whether or not it should be back is another discussion.

I really don't have a good answer to the problem that W Series is trying to solve, but I don't think W Series is the answer.

Maybe taking the amount of money it cost to run W Series and putting it being 2-3 of the best female drivers and seeing where they get? One problem Jamie Chadwick has is that she's not that good (but equally, not that terrible), but she's hardly going to get the development she needs to get to improve when she wins so easily in a series full of drivers worse than her.

I don't see what a new investor will gain, they will already see that the last 'investment' has turned into an $8m defecit, effectively the suppliers and contractors have been funding and carrying this series for at least the last 12 months.

Where is the return?

[Derwent]

Womens soccer and rugby has really taken off, so why should not the W series?

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Derwent

Womens soccer and rugby has really taken off, so why should not the W series?

Because motorsport is a sport where men and women can compete together?
I think even W Series is counterproductive, at least with drivers of this level.

[tux]

Originally Posted by Derwent

Womens soccer and rugby has really taken off, so why should not the W series?

Money

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Derwent

Womens soccer and rugby has really taken off, so why should not the W series?

It can. But clearly in its current format it cannot given it's in serious financial trouble.

I don't think anyone has said the concept absolutely cannot work - just that right now it clearly is not.

Related: The Iron Dames are currently doing excellent things.

[NaBUru38]

I support equality. I agree with Pippa Mann that segregating drivers is a bad idea.

Extreme E has mixed relays, a format with I love in any sport. Of course it wouldn't make sense in a junior formula series.

But neither does W Series, which has a triple champion that can't step up.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

But neither does W Series, which has a triple champion that can't step up.

This is true, but the idea is that this generation inspire the future generations and you'll get more female races, and since there is more, you'll have a higher chance of getting good ones, etc.

It's playing the long game. The problem is the long game is expensive.

[FIRE]

I am a touring car and sports car guy so when I am thinking of female drivers names like Michelle Halder, Sophia Florsch, Jessica Backman, etc. pop up. For me they did more for motorsport than W Series.