[WEC] The Unified Power Rankings (GTP / Hypercar)

[Adam43]

Check out the latest Racecar Engineering mag. They’ve basically nicked my best lap charts and tables

The lap time charts are presented as a rising average. Which adds some some niceness to it (looks smoother for one thing). I like looking at and thinking about alternative ways to view. I think I’ll stick to the straight lap times view rather than the “rising average” view, but interesting. It’s nice to see the big drop off if one or two laps were much quicker than others.

Here’s another example. This one at the driver level.

They also present a table similar to my comparison of top 50 times. It uses a top 20% of laps. Which is neat. Has the advantage of adjusting for race length and how long you’re on the track. I think I’ll stick to choosing a sensible length for the race and consistent length for each car. Adjusting length depending on conditions and number of slow caution laps. Although I’ve kept most races the same apart from the shorter IMSA races. Practically this isn’t making much difference and the results (it is the same overall data after all) look very similar.

It’s under Paul Trusswell’s section. Nice to see.

I wonder if in the future they’ll have a go at trying to “merge” WEC and IMSA? Or show the gaps as the race develops - I’ve seen similar things to this before and it was an inspiration for me. I hope I’ve added by some ways it is shown and having the different drivers on there.

Feeling quite pleased with myself.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Check out the latest Racecar Engineering mag. They’ve basically nicked my best lap charts and tables

It’s under Paul Trusswell’s section. Nice to see.

Feeling quite pleased with myself.

You should be, Adam, your work on this is pretty spectacular (certainly way beyond what I perceive I'd be capable of myself)!

I'll ask Paul if he's seen your work on here, but suspect there's a degree of timing and coincidence involved. He's presented very little post race analysis for quite a while (for various reasons), but in the past has presented analytical post race articles in similar format for various publications, using these types of graphs, this is nothing new for him.

That said, I haven't seen the article you're referring to, so I'm assuming much, based on what you said.

Great minds and all that, you both like to get into the nitty gritty.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Check out the latest Racecar Engineering mag. They’ve basically nicked my best lap charts and tables

That reminds me, whatever happened to that Collins fella..... ?

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

I'll ask Paul if he's seen your work on here, but suspect there's a degree of timing and coincidence involved.

Just happy that there is some validation that it’s a good way to look at things.

I’ve taken inspiration from things seen over the years from lots of sources. Including those posted by GT-Eins. As well as feedback from users here. That’s how these things work. A process of borrowing, tweaking and trying different views.

[veeten]

See, I told you some folks were reading this thread... and getting ideas.

[Adam43]

I think some changes to the power rankings now.

[joeb]

Without making a full list:

Porsche goes down
Caddy goes up
Ferrari slight edge on the obese Toyota
Glick showed its place again on the biggest stage
Peugeot has some pluckiness after all
Floyd they are who we thought they were

[GT3_Fan]

Post Watkins Glen and Le Mans rankings

1. Ferrari
2. Toyota
3. Porsche
4. Cadillac
5. BMW
6. Peugeot
7. Acura
8. Glickenhaus
9. Vanwall

[PhilipR]

What happened to the Acuras??

They were fastest LMDH at the begginign and now seem to be struggling
Ok, granted a few Alberqueue and Ricky Taylor dumb moves did not help with their classifications, but ever since Sebring they just felt off the pace!

Did others catch up or BOP?

Also interesting I read somewhere speculation that MSR were also playing with the tyre data in 2022 - which is intriguing because after they got found they have been off the pace in all races - kind of similar to 2021 when they were struggling

[Steve McQ]

They took 23 or 24 kgs since Daytona. Which is 15-17 kgs more than BMW or Cadillac. Gaps were already small at Daytona (even if the Acura was the fastest), so I think it's enough to offset it. Plus MSR tire pressure "trick" got discovered

[veeten]

Yeah, if it weren't for the post race tech inspection, Porsche would be in a far better position as points and performance goes. And not to take too much away from BMW, as they have been pretty consistent in finishing races. Always on the podium, which not only gives the guys in Munich a good feeling, but also tells those over at WRT that this car has a lot to make them competitive when they line up for WEC action.
Cadillac is a battle wagon, as we've seen these last few races, on both sides of the Atlantic. When they need to, they can show just how good they can be. Can't count them out.
Acura needs a regroup, they've been looking a bit off in races since Laguna Seca. Sebring and Long Beach were late race disasters, but lately their form just makes one wonder, it can't be just BOP issues.

[Adam43]

Relative Pace post Watkins Glen and Le Mans. The usual comedy method.

Glickenhaus getting better and better with more running. Vanwall actually quite close historically, but everyone else super close. Or should that be hyper close?

[veeten]

And this weekend, you will be quite busy. Both IMSA and WEC will be on point, which means double stats for Cadillac and Porsche, for as those two go so goes LMDh.

Have fun...

[Adam43]

Comedy comparison based on lap consistency.

BAsed on Top 50 laps in Monza (6h race) and Top 20 in Mosport (2:40 race).

Toyota back on top. First time since Portimao.

Acura now third. Peugeot making progress.

BMW, off the back of a win at Watkins Glen, got a podium. It was on strategy. Pace wise they fell back a little at Mosport.

Oh, and it is close.

[joeb]

These results are interesting when they don't line up with a race result! Acura and Caddy had similar pace, although the Acuras seem to run away with the actual race.

[GT3_Fan]

I got new rankings opinion post CTMP and Monza

1. Toyota
2. Ferrari
3. Acura
4. BMW
5. Peugeot
6. Cadillac
7. Porsche
8. Glickenhaus
9. Vanwall

[Adam43]

I like that, I think slightly different.

Post the irrelevant Mosport and Monza.

Ranking, manufacturer, movement since before Le Mans (so a few races, lazy posting, but I changed continents for a bit), relative pace of last IMSA/WEC race combined (see above)

1. Ferrari (up 1) 100.18%
Won Le Mans. Still keeps them top.
Itsy Bitsy Teenie Weenie BoP adjustment post Le Mans. Probably more importantly, albeit masked by hot Monza, tyre warmers are thrown away again.
Pretty close at their home race.

2. Toyota (down 1) 100.00%
Hugely disappointing Le Mans, but back on the top step. Needs a little more to reclaim Ferrari after the big one.
Also one car had a 'mare.

3. Acura (up 2) 100.49%
Still super close in the middle, but now super close 3rd - 7th. Won the last one in IMSA. Getting the benefit of the doubt because I've only looked at the data rather than watched Watkins Glen.
Please do what we are all asking - race in WEC.

4. Cadillac (down 1) 100.54%
I'm liking this car and team. I can't really articulate why. Racing in a series that is kind of pointless for them is one reason. Still contenders despite having to rebuilt a car every other day is probably another. To repeat, I think the car is a good car to drive (with the possible except of under heavy off line braking - a hybrid car issue early in the regs).
Closest to Acura, but not actually that close last time out.

5. BMW (up 1) 101.51%
Won! OK, after a DSQ, but won.
Not on the pace last time, but nailed the strategy to make a podium.
Building up to help me compare series by entering WEC next year (tut tut Honda).

6. Peugeot (up 1) 100.50%
Has some really nice moments. Take a photo of the timing screen moments.
Podium one year from when they started at Monza. Not a win, hence behind BMW.

7. Porsche (down 3) 100.72%
I want to put them no.1 for all the privateers. Who, with less testing and new cars, are doing amazingly. But strength in numbers is really cementing 7th here.
Cold numbers shows they are still close, and quicker than BMW recently and generally all year. Indeed won a 6hour race, until it hadn't. Most frustrating manufacturer out there.
I think of Aysedasi when I think of this - even Porsche don't have the right to be at the top in this era. Good innit.

8. Glickenhaus (no change) 101.17%
Continue to get stronger after Sebring, but not quick enough to challenge the factory produced machines. (this is the same comment as last time - but more so now)
Someone give them some support - although we are seeing what we feared, would you when you can just buy (even) a Porsche.

9.Vanwall (no change) 103.33%
Fire!
Engine down on power - why? There was a moment yesterday when I cared about this. Then I had a cup of tea. It was a good cup of tea.

What do you reckon? Load of rubbish? Too American? Vanwall fan boy?

[veeten]

Well, post Road America shows more changes...

Penske Porsche - Back on top with a win.

Acura - both WTR/Andretti racing and MSR back in form...

Cadillac - Still the teams to watch out for...

RLL BMW - Mo' problems, mo' problems...

JDC/Miller - Getting their feet under them, but still behind the lead teams.

Proton Porsche - Same as above.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by veeten

Well, post Road America shows more changes...

Penske Porsche - Back on top with a win.

Acura - both WTR/Andretti racing and MSR back in form...

Cadillac - Still the teams to watch out for...

RLL BMW - Mo' problems, mo' problems...

JDC/Miller - Getting their feet under them, but still behind the lead teams.

Proton Porsche - Same as above.

I have to agree with that assessment of the race today. BMWs struggled and part of it was driver. Part of it was car. The JDC folks have seen to figure out how to have a solid race with a 963, the had some pace early and then did a good job to finish Fifth. The Acuras did look a little faster today, but the number 7 Porsche just had too much pace to be caught at the end.

[Adam43]

Just a comparison for pace - looking at consistency of race pace.

Acura gained pace - they were quicker than Porsche. Both move up because of their relative pace to Cadillac.

BMW similar relative pace to Glickenhaus (relative to Porsche and Cadillac). After their win it's gone pear shaped.

Come on Honda - do the WEC thing

[Adam43]

Post Road America (and Monza for WEC). Ranking, manufacturer, movement since Monza/Mosport, relative pace of last IMSA/WEC race combined (see above).

It remains pretty tight, positions can move easily here.

1. Ferrari (no move) 100.18%
Le Mans is still there influencing this position and keeping them top, but Toyota could usurp them.

2. Toyota (no move) 100.00%
Pace back to being faster than the Ferrari and a recent win.

3. Acura (no move) 100.24%
Lost to Porsche, but second and third at Road America. Had the pace over the Porsche. I think that keeps them third here. The relative pace to Cadillac and Porsche suggests they'd be a player in WEC. Possibly circuit dependent.

4. Porsche (up 3) 100.55%
They've had a couple of IMSA wins now. Including the last race out where they headed the field all day (although not really with the fastest car). Didn't put a foot wrong (maybe the odd toe in the odd corner) and they get credit for that here. Strength in numbers too. Could be a temporary high point? Or will they build on it?

5. Peugeot (up 1) 100.50%
Has some really nice moments. Take a photo of the timing screen moments. Will they get the golden selfie stick out before the end of the year?

6. Cadillac (down 2) 100.71%
Third best at Road Atlanta. Would have started on pole, but didn't and then disappeared.

7. Glickenhaus (up 1) 101.17%
A good performance from a small manufacturer last time out. With BMW's woeful performance at Road America they gain 7th.

8. BMW (down 3) 101.09%
They had a win, but then have failed to build on this. The pace hasn't looked good and then everything went wrong at Road America. This poor show means they drop behind Glickenhaus.

9.Vanwall (no change) 103.33%
No change.

[tomcug]

Acura seems to be the best LMDh, even if race results alone don't show it due to different unexpected things happening like Albuquerque and Taylor crashing at Sebring and Long Beach respectively. Sad that HPD doesn't have anything to say in running the car outside of North America and Honda HQ doesn't look interested.

[veeten]

It seems that the level of interest that Toyota puts into their Le Mans challenger is almost equal to the level that Honda does with not possibly entering theirs. It just boggles the mind.

[broadrun96]

And Honda puts as much interest in to Indy and F1 with Toyota not doing either of them, it's a matter of focus for each one and desire

[veeten]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

And Honda puts as much interest in to Indy and F1 with Toyota not doing either of them, it's a matter of focus for each one and desire

The difference there is that Toyota had past experience in both IndyCar and F1, the former a winner ( including Indy 500 wins) and the latter a virtual "dog's dinner". Their sports car efforts were always a top performer, it was a series of bad luck incidents that caught them out.

We always saw efforts from Toyota, Nissan, and even Mazda, who actually was the first Japanese manufacturer to win Le Mans. Where was Honda in all this, for all of their previous efforts in IMSA since the 80's, how many of them translated into anything that made an honest run in europe, much a less Le Mans. Outside of open wheel, JGTC, and IMSA, there's very little, outside of touring car, that you can really put your finger on.

Reasons as to why the ARX-06 really needs to be on the world stage...