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26 Oct 2011, 11:33 (Ref:2977047) | #51 | |
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26 Oct 2011, 11:38 (Ref:2977049) | #52 | ||
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26 Oct 2011, 11:56 (Ref:2977061) | #53 | ||
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on the other hand the flaggie is still part of the "team" (even if he/she is 50 metres away by themselves) and should not be left on the bank all day to "watch" for service vehicles (unless they cant help it), the flaggie could kick stones and keep a good look up track as with the PC, if im on post with another flaggie etc. ill commonly mention im leaving the post (unless they want to) at the end of the session and if they say stay on post, ill become quite irrated at the fact very quickly! |
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26 Oct 2011, 12:02 (Ref:2977067) | #54 | |
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im sticking my neb in somewhat here, but didnt he put "protecting" in speech marks (like i just have!), any marshal who has a beating heart and something called a brain knows some drivers commonly ignore/miss yellow flags
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26 Oct 2011, 12:05 (Ref:2977069) | #55 | ||
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p.s before i get the yellow flags should be shown on post, i carry it with me and show it on track if i need to, whistle aswell mainly |
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26 Oct 2011, 12:36 (Ref:2977092) | #56 | ||
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Re leaving the post between sessions, it's not a case of 'won't - it can be impractical since you have to be on the post ready to flag when the cars come round for the next session. Even on out laps cars can - and do - fall off, and there are other times when a flag might be needed. If you're 100 yards away kicking stones off this can be a problem... You shouldn't be taking a yellow trackside - it should always be displayed from the designated position, partly because that's where the drivers are expecting to see you and also because it's usually the best place for you to see them.
And regards coffee - if you're incident and didn't get to drink it you can do so once the race is live, putting it down if you need to go to something - you're supposed to count to 10 and let the dust settle. If you need to wave a flag, however, you have to wave it now so putting down the cup isn't an option. As has already been said, a day flagging is often more tiring than a day on incident and you really need that break to rest the brain. However, that doesn't mean I won't assist if you're short handed, of course, but I won't be leaping out there from choice either! |
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26 Oct 2011, 12:37 (Ref:2977093) | #57 | |||
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26 Oct 2011, 13:05 (Ref:2977115) | #58 | ||
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Re Posts below....
It depends on the day - you can have days on incident where you don't have five mins - lots of things to do! There are other days when you end up actually doing not a lot, except checking the track, and from my personal point of view if there is a break between races I'll be out with a broom and check the track. I would imagine flagging can be the same - busy days and not so busy days - it just depends. Likewise I have spent the busiest and most knackering days on an "option" a lot of peeps I suspect perceive is "easy", which is Startline - I have probably run further up and down a grid and sorted out more mess ups than I have ever done in an incident day. So everyone is as valued as each other - no matter what. |
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26 Oct 2011, 13:09 (Ref:2977119) | #59 | ||
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I firmy believe that a good flaggie is always "Busy" - even if there's nothing to wave a flag at, the concentration is still required as far as reading the race is concerned.
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26 Oct 2011, 13:17 (Ref:2977130) | #60 | ||
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In addition, between sessions is the time that I used to use to study the program and in particular the entry for the next session, trying to pick out potential fast/slow cars/drivers, especially if I am blueing the session. Once the session has started its difficult to take more than a cursory glance at the program. |
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26 Oct 2011, 13:48 (Ref:2977143) | #61 | |||
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Correct, correct and triple correct. The flaggie who relaxs whilst cars are on track is the one who misses the spinner or the need for a urgent blue. |
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26 Oct 2011, 16:41 (Ref:2977228) | #62 | ||
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I'm sorry if I'm injecting unnecessary levity into the situation, but I've been reading this thread with the following running thru my head: "BAD marshal. No pork pie."
And those of you who know me might say it can run thru my head because there isn't anything else in it! But here are some serious questions: 1. If the flaggers are supposed to be watching for fluid loss, mechanicals, etc. how do they tell anyone if they are 100 ft away or across track from the main post/observer? I found myself alone in this situation at Silverstone in June and was seriously frustrated by not being able to warn anyone on my post, as the incident marshals did not seem to understand hand signals. 2. Why would a marshal not want to flag? Because it's boring? Because they've never been trained to do it well? Because it's a lonely job? (I've noticed that one flagger per post is often the case while there are several incident marshals.) Because it seems from the thread comments that there's a perception that flagging is what you do when you can't do anything else. Maybe this is an indication of a perception problem, not a real problem. I gotta say, if this is true, you guys have a different problem than you think you do. keke who does everything, but the MSA calls me a flagger because they can't wrap their head around what I really do. |
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26 Oct 2011, 17:01 (Ref:2977247) | #63 | |||
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Apologies to mr exflagman if I've misunderstood your meaning. |
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26 Oct 2011, 17:07 (Ref:2977250) | #64 | |||
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(Well, the other answer is that it's actually not your responsibility to look for this sort of thing, that's the PC(observer)'s job - obviously, everywhere else, you helpfully tell the PC, who's stood next to you, in case (s)he hasn't seen it.) |
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26 Oct 2011, 17:25 (Ref:2977259) | #65 | |||
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As a flag marshal I always tried to use all my senses to help me do the job better. Some would say I needed every little bit of help going You can often hear when a driver/car is in trouble from things like tyre noise, engine note changes etc. Similarly you can sometimes smell an overheating engine/gearbox and be prepared for the car to slow/pull off etc. As you are looking directly at the cars most of the time it is also likely that you will spot mechanical problems. I am by no means claiming it is only flag marshals that do these things but I believe it is all part of the flag marshals role. |
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26 Oct 2011, 18:37 (Ref:2977297) | #66 | |||
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Were you near the top of Paddock Hill bend for the Radical race earlier this year then?! |
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26 Oct 2011, 18:43 (Ref:2977299) | #67 | |||
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Agree entirely, and IME most PCs specifically ask people on their post for help, but strictly speaking, the PC observes, and the flaggie operates the flags (observing the circuit conditions, not the cars themselves), so the answer to the question "as a flaggie, how do I report Things Of Interest To the Clerks?" is: it's not your responsibility, so you don't [need to worry about it]. But, I also agree is that it's very frustrating when you know of such things and have no way to pass it up the chain. |
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26 Oct 2011, 18:58 (Ref:2977312) | #68 | |||
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Flag points away from PC's box Old Hall In and out,, Island in and Out, Shell in (Foulston Advance If used), Druids In and Out, Lodge In Deer leap (other side of track) I amy have missed one or two |
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26 Oct 2011, 19:21 (Ref:2977334) | #69 | |||
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Ian Chalmers, Maker of circuit flags. |
26 Oct 2011, 22:03 (Ref:2977411) | #70 | ||
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on the part of Rockingham that is on the oval the flaggies are on the other side of the track (and it is a wide track!), not sure about the bit on the flat as have yet to marshal that part
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26 Oct 2011, 22:27 (Ref:2977415) | #71 | ||
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I've successfully signalled 'Car 39 peeing fuel onto the track' from the other side of the circuit. It was a little inventive - Lionel Blair would have been proud of me - and it made the spectators laugh, but I definitely got the message over!
I do agree with flagman about the various bits of research, re-sorting of flags, etc, that go on between sessions when we're apparently not doing anything |
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27 Oct 2011, 11:38 (Ref:2977635) | #72 | |||
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27 Oct 2011, 11:45 (Ref:2977640) | #73 | |
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27 Oct 2011, 11:51 (Ref:2977644) | #74 | ||
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Have been known to stop the course car and verbally report overtakings/driving infringments when on an isolated post, as you don't normally have time to get in touch with the observer before the course car arrives. If they clerk wants a written report as a result would then get a pad from the observer. |
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27 Oct 2011, 11:58 (Ref:2977647) | #75 | ||
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Have been known to stop the course car and verbally report overtakings/driving infringments when on an isolated post, as you don't normally have time to get in touch with the observer before the course car arrives. If they clerk wants a written report as a result would then get a pad from the observer.[/QUOTE]
I have no problem with this and always have report pads in the Course Car when I'm driving it. |
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Comments made are personal and don't reflect any club or Motorsport UK policy. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein |
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