parity issues.......anyone?

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by xr8

For those of tou that think that the walinshaw commodores are not quicker did you whatch the second race were frosty was tying to get past that commodore (skaife i think) Frosty had better tyres, so was getting onto the front straight way better than skaife but half way down the straight skaif would pull out about half a dozen car lengths on frosty only for the ford to pull him back in braking due to his better tyres. When he passed him he only pulled him in under brakes but it was clear that the chev had far better power!

Yeah, all 4 of the TW cars were just so far in front of lowndes, there must've been a timing problem.

You heard it here first guys, xr8 says lowndes didn't win Hidden Valley.

[stmorri]

Originally Posted by Dazz

Half a dozen car lengths????????

That's all that is required.

[Pro Racer]

i didn't see half a dozen car lengths i thought the Fords up front 888, FPR were pretty equal with the WP cars, as i have said a thousand times WP had their A-game on all year and Ford and the other Holdens havn't quite been there and now they are starting to. i remeber at EC when Skaife was leading i think R2 when JR came out in front of Skaifey a lap down JR was Holding Skaifes speed Skaifey couldn't get past and he wasn't holding Skaifey up so they were pretty evenly matched on raw speed. i think with the extra data they have and their ability to have the car on the pace straight out of the transporter leaves them a step ahead of everyone else all weekend.

they are doing nothing wrong by the flawed rules, they are doing a good job with what they have on hand and they have 4 great drivers doing a great job and they are not nor should they pull over and let someone else win or catch up.

[Dazz]

I hate to bring simple maths into this discussion but stick with me.

If two cars come onto the straight at 80km/h one second apart, that's about 22 metres gap between them. As 80km/h is about 22 metres per second.

At the end of the straight, still at one second apart, that's about 75 metres gap, as at 270km/h you travel about 75 metres per second. So what you se as a growth in gap of about 50 metres, is in fact not really there as a time related measurement.

Why it looks like the car behind catches up is that the car in front brakes one second before the car following so the car in front is decceleration while the one behind is still accelerating.

There is no wy known to man that Frosty could brake a full six car lengths later to make up the time. If you watch they all pretty much brake at exactly the same point on the track right near the blend line.

So keep the time gap in mind when your eyes tell you the car in front is pulling a gap on the one behind.

[SSbaby]

Originally Posted by xr8

For those of tou that think that the walinshaw commodores are not quicker did you whatch the second race were frosty was tying to get past that commodore (skaife i think) Frosty had better tyres, so was getting onto the front straight way better than skaife but half way down the straight skaif would pull out about half a dozen car lengths on frosty only for the ford to pull him back in braking due to his better tyres. When he passed him he only pulled him in under brakes but it was clear that the chev had far better power!

Did you bother to listen to Cromley who stated that fresh tyres give off their best in the first 3 laps or so before they normalise? That's why frosty couldn't get by because by the time he reached the rest of the TWR racers, his tyres had already been past their best.

That's why its best to have commentators like Cromley who know what they are talking about... err for those who even bother to listen, that is!

[stmorri]

Originally Posted by Dazz

I hate to bring simple maths into this discussion but stick with me.

If two cars come onto the straight at 80km/h one second apart, that's about 22 metres gap between them. As 80km/h is about 22 metres per second.

At the end of the straight, still at one second apart, that's about 75 metres gap, as at 270km/h you travel about 75 metres per second. So what you se as a growth in gap of about 50 metres, is in fact not really there as a time related measurement.

Why it looks like the car behind catches up is that the car in front brakes one second before the car following so the car in front is decceleration while the one behind is still accelerating.

There is no wy known to man that Frosty could brake a full six car lengths later to make up the time. If you watch they all pretty much brake at exactly the same point on the track right near the blend line.

So keep the time gap in mind when your eyes tell you the car in front is pulling a gap on the one behind.

Thanks for that info Dazz......how foolish of us we should have realised!

[billy bigtime]

Originally Posted by Dazz

I hate to bring simple maths into this discussion but stick with me.

If two cars come onto the straight at 80km/h one second apart, that's about 22 metres gap between them. As 80km/h is about 22 metres per second.

At the end of the straight, still at one second apart, that's about 75 metres gap, as at 270km/h you travel about 75 metres per second. So what you se as a growth in gap of about 50 metres, is in fact not really there as a time related measurement.

Why it looks like the car behind catches up is that the car in front brakes one second before the car following so the car in front is decceleration while the one behind is still accelerating.

There is no wy known to man that Frosty could brake a full six car lengths later to make up the time. If you watch they all pretty much brake at exactly the same point on the track right near the blend line.

So keep the time gap in mind when your eyes tell you the car in front is pulling a gap on the one behind.

Is that how it works? I'll be buggered.

[davester]

There are plenty of fast Fords out there, 888, SBR, FPR, DJR but they have been inconsistent compared to the WP cars. There are no other Holdens going real quick however.

The Europeans had a good system some years ago with podium cars carrying success ballast...that's probably the only way to apply parity at the moment without hurting the slower Holden teams.

Still, it is 888 who have won two of the last 3 rounds, so just where should parity apply?

[Phase3]

Originally Posted by Monaro

No they still need to slow the Fords down.Take out the WP cars and there are no Commodores at the front

Couldn't agree more, without the WP cars the Fords have an advantage over the Commodore, and in a non WP world I would support an adjustment being carried out, seems tom has the series, and the fans by the goolies as they are the main reason the series doesnt work how it was designed

[Pro Racer]

Originally Posted by Dazz
Why it looks like the car behind catches up is that the car in front brakes one second before the car following so the car in front is decceleration while the one behind is still accelerating.

exactly how it works, same as coming out of the corner the car in front gets the power down earlier than the car behind, same maths just reversed.

Originally Posted by SSbaby
That's why its best to have commentators like Cromley who know what they are talking about... err for those who even bother to listen, that is!

exactly right, Cromley is one of the few comentators i really take notice of and have the upmost respect for, no better man for this job in V8 land.

Originally Posted by Phase3
seems tom has the series, and the fans by the goolies as they are the main reason the series doesnt work how it was designed

he did back in the late 90's early 00's before he left and on his return he has done the same thing, good on him for being able to do it twice and doing a bloody good job at it.

[Dazz]

Riddle me this you parity questioning people?

How come Jason Bright can take a BJR Falcon and put it in the top ten on more than one occasion, yet BJR can't?

Does Jason Bright's Falcon and a Team BOC Falcon not have parity?

[stmorri]

Originally Posted by Dazz

Riddle me this you parity questioning people?

How come Jason Bright can take a BJR Falcon and put it in the top ten on more than one occasion, yet BJR can't?

Does Jason Bright's Falcon and a Team BOC Falcon not have parity?

He has FPR running gear?

[Dazz]

So FPR and BJR don't have parity?

[stmorri]

Originally Posted by Dazz

So FPR and BJR don't have parity?

FPR and BJR aren't equal. BJR work just as hard as FPR, maybe even harder, but they don't have the budget or the resources that FPR have got.

[Peregrine]

I think the biggest "parity" problem seems to be with the application of rules/penalties, although a vehicular adjustment is also required.

[Dazz]

Originally Posted by stmorri

FPR and BJR aren't equal. BJR work just as hard as FPR, maybe even harder, but they don't have the budget or the resources that FPR have got.

So this so called lack of parity between Holden and Ford is in fact a resources difference between the biggest and smallest budget teams?

[stmorri]

Originally Posted by Dazz

So this so called lack of parity between Holden and Ford is in fact a resources difference between the biggest and smallest budget teams?

The lack of resouces parity is between teams not brands. Both brands have well funded teams and struggling teams.

[xr8]

Well baby! frosty did get past in the end and no thr commodore was not getting onto the front straight faster thr falcon was and making a run on the chev in the first part of the straight but loosing out by about half way down, but picking it up at the end again becuase his tyres were in much better shape! Frosty had superior lap times but not superior power!As for cromley, he has maintained all along that the commodores are not quicker and will never change his mind!

[Pro Racer]

they are the same, the Ford is behind the Holden they Holden is getting on the power x amount of time earlier as the Ford is still in the corner the Holden is on the power slightly earlier making it a step ahead but the time in between the cars is the same as they get faster (as explained on previous page), and same for baking just reversed, the Holden brakes first and it seems the Ford gains on it but in actual fact it isnt as the Ford is still accelerating and then he brakes all this time he is closer to the car but again the time difference is the same as they are going slower and then if you aply the theory above on acelerating out of the corner here and repeat that over and over for each corner every lap.

with how evenly matched these cars are tyres usally only mean tenths of a second sometimes 100ths, and Frosty was getting on the power fractionly earlier and braking fractionly later but with that only gaining him 10ths or hundreths it is easy to catch but hard to pass, and sometimes you need a mistake to pass, sometimes you need 5 laps to work your way past sometimes you need longer and sometimes you run out of laps as Frosty did on this occasion.