Need some help with Escort Mk1 1974 (Group 2 !!)

[nabs]

sorry forgot to put every part of interior was as per standard road car. ta

[nabs]

the car was painted in the white roof and blue sides with white outlinig design the only good thing we can say about it.....ta

[Mike Bell]

Cheers for all that. Thought the 60's cars kept complete interior so now just trying to figure out how that changed during 70s. Slowly stuff was discarded starting with rear seat and I guess headlining. By 77 even door cards could be lightened but had to remain fitted. Trouble is the rules for a particular year don't always match evidence from those around at the time!

Broadspeed car's dampers- are you saying thay poked through floor as in silver car about 11 posts ago?

Reckon the Boreham car went though a few colour changes

Thanks again.

[jsvahn]

Can anyone confirm if this is a real or a replica Zak?
https://picasaweb.google.com/Fordyou...69318428075778


Here is some more photos of the Finnish "torsionbar" car
https://picasaweb.google.com/finnlan...ainenOTGP2007#

[jsvahn]

I would also like to have lot of BDA parts in my garage..
Aluminium rear axle would also be to great help

https://picasaweb.google.com/superro...alienSammlung#

https://picasaweb.google.com/superroo73/CHIAVACCI#

[Mike Bell]

Wow- I'm speechless after looking at that line up of cars & parts

Need to sell everything and move to Italy............

[nabs]

great pictures....................thank you,thank you..

[Peter Mallett]

Can I just pick up on the pre 1975 Bodywork regs. In the Capri Homologation Certificate the widened bodywork for the RS3100 was made by cutting the wing panels and adding in a fibreglass horizontal top panel. This gave the 50mm additional width each side.

They homologated ally diff casings etc. but not sure about the entire axle casing.

[jsvahn]

What about the shells? Did Zak use an AVO shell or a basic Köln shell?

Which rear axle? Big Atlas or the baby Atlas (Köln axle)?



I´ve tried to contact JB Racing in Germany but without luck. Perhaps no answer because of my english email..
http://www.jb-racing.de/haupt.htm

Here is an album of their cars and it seems they have or had a MK1 Zak
http://www.100octane.de/index.php?op...limitstart=100

Finally a teaser. JB Racing Mk2. Enjoy the engine sound
http://www.102octane.de/videos/schle...usbernhart.wmv

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by jsvahn

What about the shells? Did Zak use an AVO shell or a basic Köln shell?

Which rear axle? Big Atlas or the baby Atlas (Köln axle)?

In UK I understand the Gomm works rally shells were based on standard Escort as the strengthening and modifications required were well beyond the normal type 49 shell, so may as well use a standard one. I have no idea what Broadspeed or Zakspeed used for racing but would guess also a modified standard shell.

For the Atlas axle, with the wheel width they were using maybe the full width version would have been too wide, but as brakes were small enough to fit inside rims they could have used wheel offset to get track correct. I think what we now call the 'baby' atlas would have been too narrow. I use the normal wide one.

Maybe from those axle pictures you posted some measurements could be taken!

[morninggents]

The Broadspeed shells were heavily modified and lightened. The normal atlas axle was used (I think the 'baby' atlas is a more recent development) and BBS 3 piece rims with large inset were the wheels to use.

[4dnut]

I have built a 1974 zak replica, 2 litre BDG on Lucas etc, I have all the tooling to make an alloy atlas, I am very weight conscious so made all the patterns to remake the atlas.The casting is a bit wider with gusseting resulting in double the stiffness in the toe plane and the same stiffness in the camber plane(I performed bending tests on my alloy atlas and a normal atlas).We used chromoly tubes and the result was a casing 10kg lighter than a standard one.Here is an address of some pis of my car.
http://www.groundsky.co.nz/index.php...ntrantID=16411
Also go to ebay de and buy a copy of raylle racing 7/74 they road test the zak car

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by 4dnut

I have built a 1974 zak replica, 2 litre BDG on Lucas etc, I have all the tooling to make an alloy atlas, I am very weight conscious so made all the patterns to remake the atlas.The casting is a bit wider with gusseting resulting in double the stiffness in the toe plane and the same stiffness in the camber plane(I performed bending tests on my alloy atlas and a normal atlas).We used chromoly tubes and the result was a casing 10kg lighter than a standard one.Here is an address of some pis of my car.
Also go to ebay de and buy a copy of raylle racing 7/74 they road test the zak car

Wow that is a great looking car- a real credit to you. Thanks for posting the info! They look like centrelock wheels- were they specially made as well?

[jsvahn]

Originally Posted by 4dnut

I have built a 1974 zak replica, 2 litre BDG on Lucas etc, I have all the tooling to make an alloy atlas, I am very weight conscious so made all the patterns to remake the atlas.The casting is a bit wider with gusseting resulting in double the stiffness in the toe plane and the same stiffness in the camber plane(I performed bending tests on my alloy atlas and a normal atlas).We used chromoly tubes and the result was a casing 10kg lighter than a standard one.Here is an address of some pis of my car.
http://www.groundsky.co.nz/index.php...ntrantID=16411
Also go to ebay de and buy a copy of raylle racing 7/74 they road test the zak car

Thank you very much!

Do you have any building photos or tech. photos of your car? Photos of the Atlas?
Do you have had the possibility to use a real Zak as a model?

You can send photos to johan(at)johansvahn.com

[4dnut]

my car uses E50 magnesium BBS wheels, it is centrelock and actually has airjacks aswell,I will try and post a diff picture

[superroo73]

nice that my pictures displayed everywhere :-)
they also star with teh name fordyoungtimerclub or youngtimerclub becaus superroo73 is full in the webalbum of google :-)

sistercar of that car from finland has a friend in NZ he wants to rebuild the torsion bar systenm becaus it´s now in 5-link. he extra went to Finnland for masuring all the details and took more pictutres

as i know eary zak cars where from UK from broadspeed later he build himself from std shells, you can see the chrome lining around the rear sidewindows at some of the cars...

hope it heps

greeds
Stefan

[enforsa]

Hey Stefan. As soon as I saw those pictures I knew they were yours. Hi all I'm new to the forum. A few people I know on here as well! I have one of the sister cars to the Finnish car here in New Zealand. There were 3 of them built to identical spec. One was destroyed in 1973 and the other 2 have survived. Mine was driven by Erik Hoyer from Denmark.

I've been to Finland to look at the Kemiläinen car. The owner allowed me unrestricted access to it which was great. We jacked it up and took off the wheels in his heated garage, measured and photographed everything we needed to. I believe the suspension setup was designed by Len Bailey. The torsion bars are definitely off a Morris Minor 1000 (MM). The arms connecting the torsion bar via the drop links to the diff are modified MM arms that normally secure the stationary end of the torsion bars to the chassis on a standard MM. The modifications are pretty crude looking actually. (Period pictures of my car show more precision work on the arms) The TCA's on it now are CNC machined ones made when one of the original cast ones which are still with the car failed during a race meeting with obvious consequences. There isn't much meat around the outer joint and it broke off. CNC'd ones have been machined with a little more material around the joint. The rear dampers have been replaced but the originals are also still with the car. Originals are single seater coil overs with the platforms and adjusting nuts removed. I have a pair identical but can't remember the make off hand but probably Armstrong.

The chassis mounts for the compression struts are modified early model Escort standard compression strut brackets that normally bolt to the chassis rails with 4 through bolts.

My car presumably had the same TCA's originally but its last outing in Ford ownership was on the Circuit of Ireland Rally in 1975, when it ran with somewhat standard uprights. The compression struts remained but it was fitted with standard configuration Armstrong McPherson struts and modified standard TCA's with a bearing inner and a mount for a drop link from the anti roll bar welded to it. The diff hat was turned upside down as the ride height was raised somewhat (pivot pin for the Watts was offset by approx 25mm from diff centre)

I should acknowledge the photos below are from Martin Holmes. Taken at
Boreham in 1975 after Circuit of Ireland.

[Mike Bell]

Hi Stefan, thanks for the input and great photos! I have seen pictures of Zakspeed cars with the side window trim and assumed they must have started with a standard car- Can't imagine adding them to a race car on purpose!

Welcome Chris, and thanks for the info on your car which I guess is Roger Clark's C of I steed?

I had always understood that the Escort torsion bars were MM front suspension items, but as the later Marina & Ital used same layout it may be that the bars are interchangeable. (I worked for a BL dealer and we always joked at the time that Marina was just a re-bodied Minor!) I presume in Martin's pic of rear end that right 'leaf spring' has gone walkabout?

Interesting about the TCA failure. I run normal Ford items with rose bearing inner but have always been uneasy about the outer pin being strong enough. Obviously the Alloy version can be weak in other ways! TCAs and front hub carriers are the items I would like to change to something more like the Zak setup.

Again, thanks for the info and anything else you think may know or learn about suspension or period Gp2 Escorts in general much appreciated.

Mike

[ae86]

can you give some more info regarding a alu atlas ?

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by ae86

can you give some more info regarding a alu atlas ?

In period or making one now? 4dnut is the man switched on to making them- maybe pm direct?

[jsvahn]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

In period or making one now?

Both would be great to know

I havent got any photos from 4dnut yet but Im still waiting..

[enforsa]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Hi Stefan, thanks for the input and great photos! I have seen pictures of Zakspeed cars with the side window trim and assumed they must have started with a standard car- Can't imagine adding them to a race car on purpose!

Welcome Chris, and thanks for the info on your car which I guess is Roger Clark's C of I steed?

I had always understood that the Escort torsion bars were MM front suspension items, but as the later Marina & Ital used same layout it may be that the bars are interchangeable. (I worked for a BL dealer and we always joked at the time that Marina was just a re-bodied Minor!) I presume in Martin's pic of rear end that right 'leaf spring' has gone walkabout?

Interesting about the TCA failure. I run normal Ford items with rose bearing inner but have always been uneasy about the outer pin being strong enough. Obviously the Alloy version can be weak in other ways! TCAs and front hub carriers are the items I would like to change to something more like the Zak setup.

Again, thanks for the info and anything else you think may know or learn about suspension or period Gp2 Escorts in general much appreciated.

Mike

Thanks for the welcome Mike. Yes the car is indeed Mr Clarks car from COI and yes the missing "spring" had gone walkabout when that photo was taken. The rules were certainly interesting then! It wouldn't surprise me if the same bars were used on the Marina's etc but hadn't considered that until reading this thread. I carefully measured a MM one before I went to Finland just to make sure I knew what to look for. I had also corresponded with the guy in Holland who has the Willment RS1600 with torsion rear and he told me MM items were used. Its pretty easy to see when you are lying under a car with them and you know what to look for. Two other unconnected sources said the same.

I wouldnt worry about the strength of the outer pin on a standard TCA. I've broken an adjustable TCA in two at the adjusting nut but the outer pin stayed all good - well it did bend but didn't break. The broken bit was 3/4" dia!

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by enforsa

I wouldnt worry about the strength of the outer pin on a standard TCA. I've broken an adjustable TCA in two at the adjusting nut but the outer pin stayed all good - well it did bend but didn't break. The broken bit was 3/4" dia!

Thanks for the reply Chris. So is your car back to torsion bar spec now?

You have hit the nail on the head with above comment about pin bending not breaking! This is of course the least catastrophic result of an impact and I'm sure would be the reason on COI Ford ran cast steel TCAs and normal struts. (Or eligibility issues of course!) You are likely to finish the stage or race with bent suspension- but probably not with broken suspension!

Nowadays I'm more concerned about retention of the ball pin in it's cup at end of TCA. (Not sure of quality!) With rose bearing it is all on view and easier to check. Maybe way to go is tubular steel TCAs with rose bearing outer, then steel pin locating into standard upright.

How about hubs and stub axles? Again, if the standard stub bends a bit less dramatic than it shearing off.

Thanks again for taking time to post. Would be great for this thread to eventually lead to a better understanding of the period Gp2 Escort. It's getting there!

[enforsa]

The car will be back to torsion spec when I've finished. Nothing too difficult now I've done the research. The bars were removed and it was fitted with leaf springs when found in 1990. Finland is a long long way from New Zealand to go and look at a car for a couple of days just to make sure I do it right then go home again! I've also found a guy here in NZ who worked on the Norman Reeves / Dave Brodie sister car that was written off in 1972. He particularly rembers it for the rear suspension.

Here's a few pics of the Willment / Crabtree car's rear suspension which I'm sure will be of interest to a few. Mike Crabtree reckoned it was better than the Boreham cars as it was more adjustable and from the look of it he is right. A slightly different take on the idea. I like the way the "springs" are attached. Not sure how the outboard 4 links further the cause of fitting the widest wheels possible in the arches though.

[ae86]

I hope that some one can help

I am helping a frind to convert his BDG from cab to Lucas mek injection

problem are that he want to run a altenator also. Normaly they fit the mec pump where the altenator are but now I have seen that the Zackspeed engines have the pump driven from inlet cam.
Pullyes and belt I have sorted but is there any one that have a picture off the bracket that holds the pump in bottom ?

/Rene