IMSA 2021

[TheMightyM]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

IMSA gets their own event for Detroit, week before the Indy race. Still DPi/LMP2 and GTD sprint cup only. Can't help but think it may cost visits for each event spreading them out across 2 weekends.


https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/i...t-gp-for-2021/

Not much of a choice — the IndyCar dates are the same weekend as Le Mans.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by TheMightyM

Not much of a choice — the IndyCar dates are the same weekend as Le Mans.

Without GTLM running that event anyway, there wasn't much overlap in drivers and some didn't retain the seats they'd had before. It's not the old days of half the field making the trip.

[broadrun96]

Well Mike's partners have stepped up with more money. Jim Owens(SiriusXM) brought his Liberty Media guys in as minority owners with MSR so I'd guess we'll see the SiriusXM branding continue on the DPi.

RealTime looking to return to IMSA with an NSX for 21 as well. But sounds like the usual if the money and program are right so don't hold your breath.

https://sportscar365.com/industry/li...invest-in-msr/


United enters 2 LMP3s for Daytona in the new class. Oh course the usual rule caveats apply.

https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/u...-for-rolex-24/

[WyldStallion]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Well Mike's partners have stepped up with more money. Jim Owens(SiriusXM) brought his Liberty Media guys in as minority owners with MSR so I'd guess we'll see the SiriusXM branding continue on the DPi.

RealTime looking to return to IMSA with an NSX for 21 as well. But sounds like the usual if the money and program are right so don't hold your breath.

https://sportscar365.com/industry/li...invest-in-msr/


United enters 2 LMP3s for Daytona in the new class. Oh course the usual rule caveats apply.

https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/u...-for-rolex-24/

Not interested in LMP3 at all. Other than to see how it will interact with GTLM. That part might be interesting. I think in the endurance races that the GTLM winner will finished ahead of the LMP3 in the overall running order Every year that LMPC ran at Daytona 24 hours, the GTLM winner finished ahead comfortably.

[broadrun96]

More important news, single Mazda for Ticknell and Jarvis in 21 with Bomarito for the enduros

The usual claims of planning and time allocation for the LMDh car development in the article. S365 has it now, MP is busy with Indy engine stuff today

[Akrapovic]

5 cars.

Oh, the top class is struggling? Because IMSA insisted on everyone being a factory car? And mandating the privateer customer chassis can't race at the front? Who could've predicted that? Where have we heard this story before?

IMSA and ACO need to start learning from each others mistakes.

[gert]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

5 cars.

Oh, the top class is struggling? Because IMSA insisted on everyone being a factory car? And mandating the privateer customer chassis can't race at the front? Who could've predicted that? Where have we heard this story before?

IMSA and ACO need to start learning from each others mistakes.

But they are!
IMSA vs ACO: I can make the same mistake, just better and faster.

[broadrun96]

Honestly LMP2 is a pointless argument as the only team who wanted to stay in IMSA in any way picked up Caddies. We lost any chance of a competitive LMP2 overall after JDC went to DPi. Name anyone who actually could show up and United is doubtful for a full season unless they can be guaranteed to win

And ESM was not factory, JDC Miller is not factory so the factory only thing??

[gert]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Honestly LMP2 is a pointless argument as the only team who wanted to stay in IMSA in any way picked up Caddies. We lost any chance of a competitive LMP2 overall after JDC went to DPi. Name anyone who actually could show up and United is doubtful for a full season unless they can be guaranteed to win

And ESM was not factory, JDC Miller is not factory so the factory only thing??

Isn't it the other way around?
They all went DPi because they weren't allow to win in an LMP2?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Honestly LMP2 is a pointless argument as the only team who wanted to stay in IMSA in any way picked up Caddies. We lost any chance of a competitive LMP2 overall after JDC went to DPi. Name anyone who actually could show up and United is doubtful for a full season unless they can be guaranteed to win

And ESM was not factory, JDC Miller is not factory so the factory only thing??

My understanding was Core and JDC went Caddy because they had no real option? With LMP2s being cheaper to buy and run (and there being loads of them available now) you could have names like BAR1, PR1 in the top class. And the jump from LMP3 to LMP2 is not that large (see the amount of teams who have moved up in ELMS).

Cutting LMP2 from the top class effectively killed the LMP2 class, meaning LMP3s can't make the step up as easily. Same issue ACO is having with an oversubscribed LMP2 class, as LMP1 is unsustainable so good teams can't move up like they used to be able to.

Make a viable class and they will come. Tying your classes to manufacturer involvement is not a good plan - see LMP1, GTE/GTLM and right now the Honda F1 fun.

[carbsmith]

Financially speaking IMSA could just about not care less if it's 9 cars or 3 cars as long as it's 3 manufacturers.

Don't know how you can look at 20 cars in the top prototype class at Daytona 3 years ago and a prospective 5 next year and say equitable opportunity for non-manufacturer affiliated cars makes no difference to car counts.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

Financially speaking IMSA could just about not care less if it's 9 cars or 3 cars as long as it's 3 manufacturers.

Don't know how you can look at 20 cars in the top prototype class at Daytona 3 years ago and a prospective 5 next year and say equitable opportunity for non-manufacturer affiliated cars makes no difference to car counts.

Well there were 10 top class cars 3 years ago so cut your number in half to start. VisitFlorida lost their sole sponsor and collapsed, Rebellion wouldn't have stayed with both programs and now have none, ESM's money was sold to a guy who doesn't do racing so right there you're down to 6. JDC added Mustang Sampling to their old P2, PR1 runs the same. I don't see where the rules did anything other than make the usual bs rumors of teams interested but never show up.

Fact is no one outside of probably 250k of us care about the series as fans. It's not the rules but the lack of interest in the series, it's not 1990 the there's no tobacco money to make big purses. It's all manufacturer money to make things go. Just look at the cars. You don't see much non-manufacturer or owner liveries in the series.

BAR1 said IMSA top series was far outside of what they could find for drivers to pay for any car. They ended up putting their fairly unused Riley up for sale and they don't run near what they did with the old Prototype Lights cars as they said the new LMP3s were also too expensive to run at the same level.

[carbsmith]

2018 not 2017, which was 11 by the way. You know the one year the entry list looked like a proper international event and IMSA very clearly told them all to go eff themselves with BoP. Wouldn't want them hogging space they could sell to pseudo-factory cheater GTD teams after all.

[WyldStallion]

They preach cost control and all of that but in the end its all a lie. LMP3 will bring some cars, but not new fans.

Great point about the tobacco sponsorship. That was a huge loss. Maybe we need some crony businessman like the Whittingtons or Scott Tucker again :-) Also too bad some of the mega wealthy tycoons don't go sportscar racing. I'm sure Amazon and Facebook can afford an operation. I guess the couple who do that go to F1.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

More important news, single Mazda for Ticknell and Jarvis in 21 with Bomarito for the enduros

The usual claims of planning and time allocation for the LMDh car development in the article. S365 has it now, MP is busy with Indy engine stuff today

Does this mean they will have a car ready in 2022? I thought the class was going to be pushed to 2023? Can't imagine the formula will be that different that they need 2 full calendar years to figure out how to do this.

[WyldStallion]

I think the series could do a couple of tinkerings to bring LMP2 and DPI to closer levels of speed. Still keep them different classes technically though. I bet the Penske team was the group who most pushed for split DPI/P2 in 2019. And well they are not around next year.

And who knows what will happen with GT at this point. Way too many question marks there. Would love to see if there is a way to enhance the Lexus to GTLM speed or close to it so you can BoP them with Corvette C8 and BMW M8. Aim Vasser has become too good for GTD. They operate on a level with the full pro GT3 teams in GT WC Europe.

[Damian Baldi]

I think most of today's problems are the lack of cooperation between IMSA and ACO to set the new rules on the last years. We have read about Hypercars and DPi 2.0 for years without any difinition until last month. Even now there are doubts about how Hypercars and LMDh will be balanced.

The lack of very clear rules puts every new possible entrance in doubt. Zak Brown said something interesing the other day, it was that they had a three years plan to run a car, less than that doesn't have sense. So, in the past years since DPi cars were introduced, there were several BoP changes, LPM2 cars were put out of equation, but the supposed new rules were delayed again and again, holding up any new possible intention to join. Now it's about Hypercar and LMDh BoP.

If the new LMDh cars are a success, I think it will be in Europe more than in US. IMSA could get extra cars for the main events as it happened in the past, but the focus of the european teams is alwasys Le Mans.

[WyldStallion]

I will make an initial prediction that for the 2021 Dayton 24 hours qualifying session that the GTLM cars will be ahead of the LMP3 cars. #4 Corvette C8R set qualifying lap record of 1 min 42.2 in July. GTLM cars should be able to get into the 1 min 41s come a few months time. Don't think the LMP3s can go under 1 min 43 probably...even the newer models. Current models lap Daytona at 1 min 46 sec.

[broadrun96]

Who knows what BOP bricks they will add to the GTLM cars to slow them before qualifying starts

[broadrun96]

Any one else think Jon wants to keep Core going in case something comes back around for him in IMSA?

Core and Jon return to Prototype ranks in LMP3 next year. Colin Braun back in as his codriver.

https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/c...bennett-braun/

And add some more Hyundai Velosters to the Pilot Challenge ranks with TC America champs Copeland moving to IMSA starting with Fox Factory race Petit weekend.
https://sportscar365.com/imsa/impc/c...-road-atlanta/

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Who knows what BOP bricks they will add to the GTLM cars to slow them before qualifying starts

Don't the GTLM cars have to run close to (though not identical to) ACO specs? Also, I do think that IMSA probably have looked at the ELMS where GTE/GTLM and LMP3 cars do race against each other.

[WyldStallion]

I'm a dork for these things. Here is the comparison of the pole times for Spa this year.

LMP3 pole 2:12.6
GTE pro pole 2:14.2

IMSA GTLM has historically had a more open BoP than WEC GTE Pro, so whenever they ran together on weekends at Sebring or COTA in the past, GTLM was a 1 or 2 seconds quicker than GTE Pro.

That puts LMP3 and IMSA GTLM right on equal terms. I think its ok if it remains that way. In fact if IMSA require Am's to qualify for grid position which I think they will, then they would and should start behind the GTLM cars at the start of races. And LMP3 cars will for sure pit first too. A GTE/GTLM full fuel stint is 60 minutes. LMP3 is 40 I think? So I say that P3 should slot in BEHIND GTLM.

[broadrun96]

The Prototype Challenge series records show some tracks faster and a couple slower than GTLM for fastest laps only.

Mid-Ohio was LMP3s at 1:18 to 1:23 in the race, GTLM 1:19-1:20 in the race.

ViR was LMP3s 1:43-1:45 in race, GTLM 1:41s

Well be interesting to see Road Atlanta next weekend as well.

[WyldStallion]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

The Prototype Challenge series records show some tracks faster and a couple slower than GTLM for fastest laps only.

Mid-Ohio was LMP3s at 1:18 to 1:23 in the race, GTLM 1:19-1:20 in the race.

ViR was LMP3s 1:43-1:45 in race, GTLM 1:41s

Well be interesting to see Road Atlanta next weekend as well.

Indeed. Fun things to always look for on these race weekends. Road Atlanta pace should be interesting to observe since the teams have data at this track just from the 6 hour race. Still as of now I think only a LMP3 in the hands of a guy the talent level of Colin Braun can match or run ahead of the GTLMs. Talking about the 2nd generation P3 by the way, not the gen 1 that runs in IPC.

[broadrun96]

Comparison of Gen 1 vs Gen 2 times at Spa and then estimation of improvement would be better than Gen 2 to GTE-Pro in 2020. Different tires and bop makes the lap time differential of this year meaningless to next year's IMSA season.