Yet more JV - in a Williams for Canada GP?

[Snrub]

Originally posted by Glen
Montoya (who is himself not exactly on form

No offense intended, but what do you base that on? Would you say the same of MS if he were in a Minardi and could finish no better than 15th?

[Dixie Flatline]

I recall reading somewhere, and I regret I can't find a direct quote, that when JV was at Williams in 96-98, he often took the contrary view to Patrick Head in setting up the car, eg. if Head wanted JV to set up the suspension not so stiffly, JV would go right ahead and make his engineers set it up stiffly.

Perhaps that's an issue of maturity, because now JV is (almost) ten years older and has (hopefully) wised up in the ways of Formula One.

Although I'm a big fan of JV (as my fiance can attest to), I'm pragmatic enough to know that until something definite is announced by Williams, there can be as many rumours as there can be (and who knows whether Craig Pollock is behind them!), but JV could still end up without a drive next year, with a career that's basically finished, particularly in Formula One.

I hope I'm wrong, though!

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by senna12
How many other recent ex formula 1 drivers generate the kind of interest and volume of threads as Jacques does? Not only at this site, but any other forum you care to name. His popularity is still second only to Michael. Only Juan comes close. And this fact hasn't escaped Bernie, and it would be as good for Franks pocketbook as it would be for Ecclestones. In addition, Budweiser may be less inclined to move with Juan to McLaren, as JV has equal name recognition here in North America.
There are all kinds of reasons for him to drive for Williams, not the least of which is he'd be very good at it. As good as any other current available driver. The price is certainly right.

My sentiments exactly senna12!

Villeneuve is the most recognisable name in motorsports aside from Shumacher and that name holds an enormous amount of value. JV deserves his final shot in proving himself in his first competitive car since 1997!
Bottom line...F1 will benefit from the excitment and controversy Villeneuve brings to the sport. Love him or hate him, he seems to tweak the fans interest like no other driver can!

[Red]

Well, what about if he's given the possibility to "prove" himself, with Williams, and fails? That will remove any doubts won't it? Would he be willing to accept such risk?

He refused to accept a pay-cut and stay with BAR, but he's willing to accept to drive for Williams for free, and BAR are actually equal to Williams right now, if not a bit ahead them, I think. Either way he loses. Even if the rumors would have a bit of substance, that would be a bad move and if he's smart he'll just enjoy his retirement and have fun reading various F1-sites or forums.

[Peter Mallett]

Make no mistake he was bloody good (better than JPM is now IMO). But WAS is the point. For whatever reasons he just didn't look like a racer after the first BAR season and as Red says, he had the chance to stay with BAR and show some faith in the management but he chose not to (I realise this was based upon a disagreement with DR) and now he is seeing Jenson and to some extent Takuma reap the benifit.

So if he does come back no matter what the circumstances he's got some serious questions to answer.

BTW. After a really lacklustre time with Lotus Nelson Piquet went to Benneton on a results basis and made a fortune.

[Red]

Precisely. Besides, no matter what those disagreements were about, I'm fairly sure that it wasn't about Jacques' hair-cut or boats. Apparently DR actually does have an idea about what F1 is, witness BAR's form this year.

[santori]

Richards didn't want him at BAR. At best he made JV a very poor offer which showed him how he'd be treated.

Certainly he had some relatively lacklustre drives at BAR but it was only at the start of 2001 that they began. (I wonder how much the accident had to do with it and how much the realisation that he'd been wrong not to take Renault's offer).
I think 2000 was his best season - in a less regulated period some of those drives would have been victories. In fact, he would probably have won in Canada if he'd been given the tyres he requested.
So coming back to Williams, fit and with a point to prove, could solve all the problems of his last couple of years.

[Red]

Yes, Richards didn't want him at BAR. But the questions is *why*? He is talented, no question about that, he is good and what not, yet Richards wanted Button and Sato. Why?

[Jordi]

Because he also weighed Honda's opinion in it?

[senna12]

Originally posted by Red
Precisely. Besides, no matter what those disagreements were about, I'm fairly sure that it wasn't about Jacques' hair-cut or boats. Apparently DR actually does have an idea about what F1 is, witness BAR's form this year.

I think DR should thank Geoff Willis and Michelin for making him look good this year.

[Sato san]

Originally posted by Jordi
Because he also weighed Honda's opinion in it?

OR he wanted to have a team that was all looking in the same direction ....which is something BAR had never had before..

[Knowlesy]

Originally posted by Red
Yes, Richards didn't want him at BAR. But the questions is *why*? He is talented, no question about that, he is good and what not, yet Richards wanted Button and Sato. Why?

Because they're talented maybe?

Button is an undisputed star. As for Sato, he's damn quick and doesn't whinge constantly: his car has failed him a few times already this year, but not once has he spat the dummy out. Respect to him for that.

[ASCII Man]

Can you for once offer some sort of quote from Jacques where he's, as you say, constantly "whining/whingeing/however the **** you write it"?
Or are you only interested in throwing up garbage like that?

[Knowlesy]

Likewise, can the JV fans please post a link to any article where DR has said to the world he wants Jacques out immediately and he won't rest until he has. And while you're at it please provide evidence that JV would have 'beaten Button into the ground' had his car not 'broken down so often'.

[Adam43]

This thread is really covering new ground and putting forward some enlightening view points.

Still lets try and keep our dummies in.

[Peter Mallett]

Adam,

I believe you are about two places above me on the Williams Z list!

I don't think DR said anything other than we'll have him for the right money but we can't afford massive salaries if we are going to move forward. (Not a quote but a summary of the various comments made last year).

Why can't JV fans understand that he's disappointed a lot of people and it isn't a case of his latent talent thats the problem here. Its the fact that (and I do mean "fact") that his results over the past few seasons have been less than overwhlming. Thus any suggestion of a return will always be met with astonishment by those who have a wider view.

I hope that JV fans won't be disappointed if he returns and gives the 50% effort he's given to BAR. But if he doesn't come back can we drop all these speculative threads please?

[santori]

And close the forum?

[Dixie Flatline]

I don't know yet whether Button is an undisputed star. He's done what any good driver has done with a good car, in that he's driven it well enough to secure a couple of podiums. To be an undisputed star, he really needs to excel in the machinery he has and has had, and for a while, particularly at Renault, he didn't do as well.

Sato might have speed, but he has yet to perfect the fine art of car control. Every time I have seen an in-car shot of him, particularly in qualifying, he always makes a tiny mistake that costs him. He has put some good drives in, but qualifying third and ending fifth, particularly because he finished behind Alonso who had to come from a long way back, should have been disappointing for him.

I'm not sure I understand the comment above about JV giving "50% effort". Where is the justification for that? I find it difficult to understand why any driver would fail to give 100% all of the time. As far as I understand it, particularly from commentators like Martin Brundle and before him James Hunt, that not driving at 100% can actually be more difficult than driving at 100% because you're consciously doing things that aren't your typical practice.

In any event, if JV was to join Williams for 2005, then I'm sure he will have sufficient motivation to give it his all, because it has to be crystal clear that this would be last chance to show that he still has the talent, speed and hunger to succeed, with the extra motivating factor of proving a point to Richards.

[Sato san]

I agree with the last paragraph....if JV was to return in a Williams , i think we may see "the old Jacques "...the one who was committed , pretty awesome in 1996 and 1997...the same one who won the INDYCAR world series and came back from being a lap down to win the INDY 500.....But...the question remains ...will he still be able to get back to that high standard of racing ....i hope so...

In saying that....i think racing for a team that he was really part of (BAR ) , rather than having to answer to people like Patrick Head as he did as Williams , turned him into the exact driver that Peter was commenting on about 50% committment....lets face it...Panis is not a World Champion is he ?.....someone like Jacques should have beaten Panis hands down ....but he didnt did he ? ...I think Jacques focus went astray somewhere...yer , of course he wanted to win , but he also wanted lots of $$$$$ too....

I say ....PUT HIM IN A WILLIAMS for next year...( or some of this if they can kick out Ralf ) >>>..A short term performace related contract.....and lets see if JV has still got what he had many years ago....If he has we will get some great entertainment ..

and if he hasnt...Then Many JV fans will probally see what many of us think we have been seeing for the last few years...
But i really hope JV gets a Williams seat for next year...But not for the money he can earn...lets get it back to racing ay !

[Peter Mallett]

Originally posted by Dixie Flatline
I'm not sure I understand the comment above about JV giving "50% effort". Where is the justification for that? I find it difficult to understand why any driver would fail to give 100% all of the time. As far as I understand it, particularly from commentators like Martin Brundle and before him James Hunt, that not driving at 100% can actually be more difficult than driving at 100% because you're consciously doing things that aren't your typical practice.

My comment was based on my opinion and is subjective. However Sato San makes the point about his comparison with Panis and you start to get a flavour of where I'm coming from.

As I said earlier. He's got more to prove if he goes to Williams than Button ghad when he went to BAR. So the pressure will really be on him to achieve. And with Webber there too?

[Adam43]

Originally posted by Dixie Flatline
I'm not sure I understand the comment above about JV giving "50% effort". Where is the justification for that? I find it difficult to understand why any driver would fail to give 100% all of the time. As far as I understand it, particularly from commentators like Martin Brundle and before him James Hunt, that not driving at 100% can actually be more difficult than driving at 100% because you're consciously doing things that aren't your typical practice.

The commentators are correct. However considering more generally you can put less 100% into the way you go motor racing.

Take Michael he probably puts in more effort into F1 than any other driver, but perhaps is no more than committed in a particular corner than some others.

[Kirk]

[i]Originally posted by Sato san

I say ....PUT HIM IN A WILLIAMS for next year...( or some of this if they can kick out Ralf ) >>>..A short term performace related contract.....and lets see if JV has still got what he had many years ago....If he has we will get some great entertainment ..

and if he hasnt...Then Many JV fans will probally see what many of us think we have been seeing for the last few years...
But i really hope JV gets a Williams seat for next year...But not for the money he can earn...lets get it back to racing ay ! [/B]

Agreed. Thats all most JV fans ask!! No matter the talent or motivation, today's F1 driver is only as good as his ride. Just ask Kimi; I suppose he's suddenly lost it also? If McLaren were to remain in this slump for any length of time, according to some limited thinkers it must also mean that Kimi is no longer fast and that's purely laughable. If JV is given the PROPER chance, rest assured he will silence the bashers.

[shiny side up!]

I hope JV does get another shot. However, I don't agree entirely with the post above...

The notion that a driver is only as good as his ride is only partially true. In terms of ultimate performance possibility, sure, you can only do so much with the equipment you're given. But at the same time, there is another driver (and sometimes 2 others, on Friday...) on the track in the exact same equipment as you. As important as it is to make the car perform as well as it possibly can, for a driver's career it is even more important to beat your teammate. No matter how ty or great your car is, if your teammate is consistently in front of you, you're in trouble...

And that last such comparison for JV was Button. JV fans and Button fans each tend to interpret the 03 season's results differently, but there is nobody out there that will claim that JV convincingly beat up on Button. Maybe I shouldn't say nobody, because I suppose some ignorant will probably always voice that opinion, but most people in a sensible state of mind with halfway decent vision would not come to the conclusion that JV destroyed Button.

I hope JV gets the chance to show his stuff. And I hope he still has it. Only time will tell...

[Kirk]

To put it in business terms, last year was a write off for BAR and JV. A 50 percent reliability rate warrants that statement in my book. If JB had the same reliability last year how would the two have compared. Darn close I'd say. Not to mention that in traffic Button has a lot to prove (not that it matters much these days ..), Jacques does not.
As for Panis: JV did not blow him away but he still beat him didn't he. And Panis is no slouch as some people would have you believe.

[santori]

Yeah, Panis could easily be a World Champion, too.