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24 Sep 2004, 06:45 (Ref:1105668)
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#51 | ||
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 719
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24 Sep 2004, 07:15 (Ref:1105679)
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#52 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 138
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Exciting news from France! Maybe Mazda will announce the mass production lmp chassis just because its the hottest trend right now
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24 Sep 2004, 07:16 (Ref:1105681)
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#53 | ||
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Take That Fan
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 9,127
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It all sounds too good to be ture IMO, 36 car does seem a bit OOT too. But saying that if it gets 5 or 6 extra cars on the grid then thats good, remember that at most ALMS races this year we have only been what 8 or 9 prototypes tops.
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There is only one way of life and thats your own ! ! !
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24 Sep 2004, 10:16 (Ref:1105780)
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#54 | |||
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14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 44,196
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Just read it on DSC. Well this is a little underwhelming. Although good luck to them.
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Brum brum
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24 Sep 2004, 10:24 (Ref:1105788)
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#55 | |
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,831
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The year has been all about people taking risks with the new regulations, with everyone waiting to see who is going to put their toe in the water....Audi "R9", Lola, Mazda, Porsche, etc.? So why on earth would anyone go with a unknown quantitiy? If I'm a Miracle, Bucknum, Intersport, Dyson, etc., and I'm looking for the next chassis to run, I'm never going to go with a Shaw. Look at the time and deliberation that Dyson took to interview the Lola. They ran the MkIIIC and the Crawford before making their very deliberate decision. Quotes like this: "Shaw has not previously built race cars. He said his experience is all “working for others.” Shaw says he is “an inventor”, who solves problems for which standard engineering solutions fall short" (from dailysportscar.com), suggest and absolute lack of credibility. With all this uncertainty , I certainly would not be shelling out my $180,000-$350,000 for what is a potentially huge boondoggle.
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24 Sep 2004, 13:19 (Ref:1105913)
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#56 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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STOP THE PRESSES!
News Flash: A new chassis manufacturer just held a news conference in a bathroom on the southside of Indianapolis to announce a new prototype that will be eligible for ACO competition... the company, "Timmy's TurdBox Technologies" outlined the new concept car, which will feature "Quartz Crystal Composite" panels bonded with chewing gum and chicken wire, and will be ready to race on Saturday morning, when 14 and 1/2 cars will take exhibition laps at Road Atlanta prior to this year's edition of Petit Le Mans... Commenting on the new composite idea, TTT's COO (or is it "coo-coo") Tim Northcutt said, "The Quartz Crystal composite technology has been created to establish a 'Zen-Karma Harmonic Convergence' between the driver and the chassis to merge 'the driver's YING to the car's YANG' for ultimate performance on the race track...." "The chassis also comes with an option to rent a TTT-supplied Wican, who will do an erotic dance with incense and finger cymbals around the car during the Pit Walk to ward off evil spirits and bad vibes..." "A real PLUS for those long-distance events like Petit, Sebring and Le Mans...." The Chief Enginieer and Designer for the program is the actor who played "The Ghost of Harley Earl" in the recent Buick commercials... When asked about his expertise, he replied, "I'm not really an 'engineer' (as he made quote marks with his fingers), but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express when I was shooting all of those Buick commericals" When asked about the half-car, Northcutt said,"The Half-car will be built like a rickshaw, and Harley and I will drag it around the track as the first demonstration of our upcoming 'alternitve fuels' and "environmentally friendly' option that teams may purchase on the spot this Saturday." |
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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24 Sep 2004, 13:23 (Ref:1105914)
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#57 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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On a Serious Note:
I'll believe it when I see it... But I will add that I Do hope this guy can at least deliver the samples for people to look at in Laguna (that's what he said he would do, correct?) plus the first of the 6 cars at Sebring... If (a BIG "IF" here) he can pull off the six cars by the endo fo teh 2005 season, and show any kind of potential at all, I'll eat every syllable that I just posted above this.... I wish him every bit of success....because a turn-key prototype that has some potential at the prices he is quoting would be a great thing for sportscar racing.... But again, I'll believe it when I see it.... Last edited by Tim Northcutt; 24 Sep 2004 at 13:24. |
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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24 Sep 2004, 13:40 (Ref:1105924)
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#58 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 407
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Quote:
And Tim Northcutt. Nice****-take, but as you have already stated that you are a 'PR prfoessional who has worked with international teams' I find it difficult to understand why you'd be so scathing. You're showing yourself up - big-time! Just because it wasn't the announcement you (stupidly, yes STUPIDLY) dreamt it might have been does nottake away that another new constructor wants to compete on a high level stage. Everyone thought it was going to be Porsche or Audi or Mazda, it wasn't, big deal. Get over it. Just because you haven't heard of the manufacturer or its product doesn't mean that what they supply by Sebring won't be good. What it DOES mean is that the ALMS has people interested in participating and developing their image and skills on their platform, not on another type. There's plenty of time left before the new season (this one hasn't finished yet!!!) for announcements to be made by manufacturers and constructors. |
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If in doubt, keep it flat out.
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24 Sep 2004, 13:48 (Ref:1105929)
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#59 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,738
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Hmmm, this is on lmsr.net
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Last edited by gwyllion; 24 Sep 2004 at 13:49. |
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24 Sep 2004, 14:01 (Ref:1105940)
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#60 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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Quote:
THat's why I followed it with the "On A Serious Note", Audi R8R.. I was just trying to bring a little levity to this.... My "News Flash" post was a Joke.... I agree that it DOES mean that a new builder is interested in the ALMS, and that is a good thing.... I just hope he can pull it off... Now... Speaking as a PR Professional, I would have done everything in my power to at least have some sort of roller chassis, or at least some credible CAD images, plus a specs sheet on the dimensions of the chassis, etc., before rolling out such a big announcement as this.... Granted...Petit is a BIG stage...and an ideal spot to make such an announcement.... But my grandfather had an old saying: "Don't step into the streets at high noon by yourself without both guns fully loaded" Did this guy bring his designers or engineers with him??? Did he provide a full and comprehensive media packet on his company, its experience, and the pedigree of his principal players on the design team, plus any sort of images of his manufacturing operation, or any "work in progress" on the first cars, etc.? Pictures of, or actual windtunnel models??? Even pics of Molds being set or shaped? That would be the way to do such an event....show that you are legit and that you will have something to show us...either today or at Laguna.... I'll admit...he dropped a bomb, and he has been the talk of the sportscar world for the last 15 hours.... But by not doing this announcement properly, he has raised more questions and skepticism than he has support...and possible customers... I DO hope this guy succeeds.....because it would be great for both the ALMS and for sportscar racing... Like rdjones said....if he does get those six cars on the track, that will be 15-16 prototypes on the ALMS grids next season...that is a great thing as well... and if the car shows any potential, he will get customers... I commend him for "Thinking Outside of the Box" to try a new and different approach to the chassis manufacturing industry.... But he has set a VERY HIGH BAR for himself...36 cars??? That's A LOT of capital tied up in construction, materials, etc.... and he'll have to show success right off the bat if he ever hopes to sell those 36....teams aren't going to buy a slow, unproven bundle of gremlins and problems... He has some long odds against him.... But I still hope he succeeds.... There... Does that clarify my position for you??? Last edited by Tim Northcutt; 24 Sep 2004 at 14:08. |
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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24 Sep 2004, 15:23 (Ref:1106027)
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#61 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 128
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I agree with what Tim is saying here. It's not the first time that we see some new guy telling he's goin' to do this or that. From a pro point of view it's sure that not even showing something of th car/chassis/design is a mistake concerning credibility. In F1 we've heard more of those kinds of stories. I'm working now for other manufacturers that have some really nice ideas, but we're not going to tell the world about before we know how it's going to look like/who it will be exactly and who might or will buy it. Communication is a really enjoyable matter but it can kill right away also...
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24 Sep 2004, 15:38 (Ref:1106045)
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#62 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 6,699
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Here's my take.
After thinking about it, and looking through the ALMS website this morning, this must have been a private press conference called by Shaw Racing, or whatever their name is. If you go to the news page on the ALMS site there is nothing mentioned about the announcement, except the original release in the pit notes that there would be an announcement. So I don't see that the ALMS is calling this their savior, or that they have really acknowleged it at all. Of course that could change. The jury is still out on this one. But they seem to be like the outfit that puts out the Radicals. All fairness to Tim, and others, most of us did not feel this was to be an announcement from a major manufacturer. The release didn't read that way. My gut was that it would be a Zytek announcement. But it wasn't. It would appear that more announcements are coming from more prominent places. Can't wait to see what those might be about. Overall, things are moving forward, which is good. |
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"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." Albert Einstein
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24 Sep 2004, 15:48 (Ref:1106051)
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#63 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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I do want to share a point that was made by "Jeff" on the ALMS Forum on this announcement that...to be honest...I think is brilliant concerning the way Mr. Shaw has chosen to approach it:
The Concept of "Team Six": The way it was presented, this is quite innovate and could definitely set an example for other smaller chassis builders to follow... By creating this "pool" of teams under one banner as a factory supported effort that in-turn provides data for chassis development and improvements, Mr. Shaw has really hit on a great concept... Many privateers do not have the resources to do extensive testing, and their access to a broader pool of sponsors that can suppor their racing effort can be rather limited... The "Team Six" concept will benefit Shaw Chassis Technologies by giving the company a ton of data and feedback to apply toward development of chassis and mechanical elements of this new prototype, and it will help the funding side of it via sponsors that would be shared by the Six to run the Team Six as a whole... which also is a great idea.... These privateers will benefit from lower costs to race, greater opportunities for resources and sponsors to fund their efforts, and most important, from shared data and improvements to the chassis they will race via economies of scale....thus they will benefit from addtional windtunnel testing, set-up data and prefered customer upgrades to the cars that will result from this new approach....benefits that they otherwise could not afford on their own... This idea should have been tried years ago.... and when you look at this concept, other smaller builders like Panhard and others would be wise to keep an eye on this approach to see how well it will work... or to consider undertaking a similar approach themselves....because it makes good business sense... Last edited by Tim Northcutt; 24 Sep 2004 at 15:52. |
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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24 Sep 2004, 15:52 (Ref:1106053)
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#64 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 175
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Tim,
Based on my own professional background, I'll have to agree with you. Had I been involved with the announcement yesterday I would have, at a minimum, had business cards, press kits, some sort of drawing or rendering of the car, and some evidence of my experience...something to make this all look real. Apparently none of those things was available. Had I been advising Shaw I would have been adamant that he not talk about "36 cars under construction" unless we had photos to prove it, and if I was going to claim that we already had GrandAm teams ordering cars, I'd probably explain how they heard about the cars when no one else knew. In short, I would have advised him to look professional, and avoid going out on limbs. Instead, what could have been a positive has generated a lot of scepticism and set some very, very high bars to meet. It's not ALMS' fault, but this was very badly handled |
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__________________
Support Kyle Petty's "Victory Junction" camp
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24 Sep 2004, 15:59 (Ref:1106059)
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#65 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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I think jhansen's observation about this being a "private" news conference is probably very accurate....
and I don't think anyone should perceive this as an "ALMS-orchestrated" announcement or event.... Their PR people are extremely professional, and are among the best in the racing world.... so they should not be judged by this event... This was Shaw's doing....not the ALMS...they just granted him a room to do it in, IMO.... But again...I want to be clear that I hope this guy does succeed.... I just think he should have approached it differently than he did... |
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__________________
Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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24 Sep 2004, 16:09 (Ref:1106066)
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#66 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 128
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Tim, isn't Porsche doing so with it's semi works and close private teams on the GT3 RS? Even in local championships PORSCHE engineers are monitoring things closely and make teams benefit from others' findings...
The concept is IMO common in mono make series in all branches of autosport. I'm not convinced a main sponsor for the six will be very ethousiasted by this as differenciation/brand equity/brandvalues have to match with the idea and winning is the final aim. |
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24 Sep 2004, 16:21 (Ref:1106075)
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#67 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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Quote:
You make some good points... But a sponsor would love to have it's name on Six cars for a decent price...it's more "bang for the buck" I think it is unusual that a small manufacturer is trying this out as a way to secure teams and to leverage that into outside resources to develop their product....Porsche also does this, but it is applied ot a long-time existing product that has been engineered for decades off of an original platform.... I think that a new concept and totally new platform/chassis being done this way by a small builder is where it is innovative....especially as a way to generate sponsorship and resources for themselves and the teams... P |
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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24 Sep 2004, 18:12 (Ref:1106141)
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#68 | ||
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Racer
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 466
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Regarding the 36 chassis thing, remmember that these probably include chassis that aren't LM spec, like club or other less complex chassis.
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24 Sep 2004, 18:20 (Ref:1106144)
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#69 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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Quote:
Fogelhund also raised a point on the ALMS Forum that this number also could include the "Trainer" chassis as well.... This guy has some good general operating ideas (the trainers, the Team Six idea, etc.) and he has at least taken a bold step to become a chassis supplier for the Series.... I just wish he would have come into this announcement with something a lot more concrete.... First impressions are lasting ones....and no one knew this guy from a tree.... He could have hit a big home run....but now he has to answer lots of questions and has to meet high expectations that he has set for himself and this new venture.... As for me...I'll wait and see what he shows up with at Laguna.... and I'll follow that site link that has been posted here.... Because unless he already has a rolling chassis already built, or at least a couple of them well underway, he has a huge task before him to get a racing model ready, tested, revised to fix any problems, and sold to any customers before Sebring rolls around.... Six months is not a lot of time to do that.... |
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__________________
Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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24 Sep 2004, 18:33 (Ref:1106148)
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#70 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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I just read the interview by Ken May of "Racing Fanatics" with Mr. Shaw...
Apparently he DOES have a roller chassis...but the "paint application" was incorrect, and thus he did not have it available to show in Atlanta.... Question: Why were there no "Chronology Photos" or anything else like that as part of his event yesterday.... For crying out loud...give the media a reason to believe you are for real.... |
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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24 Sep 2004, 18:52 (Ref:1106159)
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#71 | ||
 Race OfficialVeteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,905
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Quote:
Don't know what to think about this company, hope it's true but I have my doubts. |
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24 Sep 2004, 20:20 (Ref:1106230)
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#72 | |
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Racer
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 328
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producing six cars. what does that sound like? oh no it's now the Grand LeMan American Series. hey if this works great if not well.......
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"sicken your mind and your driving will follow" Klaus "the King" Ludwig
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24 Sep 2004, 20:32 (Ref:1106236)
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#73 | |||
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,754
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__________________
Visit The Motorsport Memorial
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24 Sep 2004, 20:34 (Ref:1106238)
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#74 | ||
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Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,215
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I'll give this guy at least some credit....
1. He has made a clear and public commitment to supply chassis to teams that wish to compete in the ALMS 2. If he can produce them for the per-unit cost he claims, the whole notion of the "Cost to Compete" has shifted dramatically....because a new turn-key chassis in the range of $200,000 is dirt-cheap for a new prototype... 3. If he can line up enough teams, he will get plenty of data to improve the initial model...and 4. If the program shows some potential, more people will take a look at how he is doing it and maybe follow in his footsteps... There ar a lot of "Ifs" there, but I guess we'll have to wait and see how this one pans out.... |
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Finally... One American Open Wheel Series!
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24 Sep 2004, 20:51 (Ref:1106260)
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#75 | |
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Rookie
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 42
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this guy is gonna end up with a big law suit on his hands in about a year...
just like all those guys who want to cheaply import some forign road car, hold a press event, collect money and then nothing happens and they get taken to court... BUT, and a big but at that, if even half of this gets pulled off it will be a big boost to ALMS. |
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There is only one Le Mans
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