Brabham BT21

[David McKinney]

Just went back to my earliest (pre-Vercoe) records to check the number of Hawthorne's NZ BT21, and find I don't have one. I do however have it listed as a BT21C: this could be a later description, perhaps after an update (Hawhorne did wok at Brabhams after all, and could easily have brought home an update kit at some stage).
I always believed the car he raced in NZ was brand new, and not one he had raced in the UK. It was landed in November 1967 but there were problems with Customs and it did not race until Feb 1968

[IANHEB]

Chris,
I have BT21-47 at Silverstone in 2000 presented as the ex Tony Trimmer car that he used as a Formula Ford.
Ian

[Chris Townsend]

Interesting, according to a piece on TT in Motoring News that was ex Williams (a wrecked Ikuzawa car from Oulton) which Trimmer rebuilt in the evenings for nothing. 1969 sold to Martin Grant-Peterkin and retained in 1970 [MN 26.2.70 p.7]
I'd be surprised to learn that the plate was still on it, but will pencil 47 in as the Ikuzawa - Trimmer car

Chris

[Ted Walker]

BT21-47 is now back with its second owner Martin Grant -Peterkin.He re-purchased from Mattthew Watts after Mattew had retired the car ,after racing it for several seasons in Historic formula ford .Whilst in Mattews ownership he re-united it with Tony Trimmer who helped with the shake down tests.It still retains its plate.

[James Murray]

Can vouch for bt21-47 being driven very quickly by Mr Watts during his ownership and also being involved in a very spectacular aerial display a couple of years ago in a hottly disputed Formula Ford race at Silverstone.

[Ted Walker]

Thank you James. I will remind Matt of this when I see him this afternoon.

[Teretonga]

I can remember reports in period saying thatHawthorne's BT21 in NZ was a new one he built up while working at Brabhams. It was supposed to have had a six speed gearbox from one of the 66 Brabham Honda 1.0 F2 cars.

[Steve Wilkinson]

The following is a list of Brabham BT21 drivers in the aforementioned championship:

1972
Ted Dzierzek in a BT21

1973
Peter Varley in a BT21C

1978
Olly Ross in a BT21C

1979
Ron Cumming in a BT??

1988/1989
Peter Speakman in a BT21C

[Steve Wilkinson]

So far the following remain unidentified:

BT21A - Sir Nick Williamson then to Howard Bennett
BT21B - Bryan Brown then to Peter Blankstone who installed a Hepworth 4-w-d system
BT21B - John Barr with 1.0 engine (1970)
BT21B - Roger Hickman with 1.0 engine (1970)
BT21/BT23 - Roy Lane
BT14/BT21 - Roy Lane then to Jimmy Johnstone (NB not the BRYAN ECCLES car)

NB BT21A-9 went from Tony Griffiths to Gray & Agnes Mickel before Griffiths bought it back. He then sold it on to Tom Elton.

[Expat]

FYI - I have BT-21 Chassis no. 23. Though the Arch Motors number stamp is long gone from the frame (assume from some amount of contact with the armco over the years by previous owners - though I shouldn't talk having not helped matters by spinning her into the pit wall at Brands last July ), the FIA papers and history indicate that the car was built in 1967 as a screamer and since then converted to twin cam spec.

[Chris Townsend]

Expat

Does the log book identify the first owners?
Any idea when the twink was installed?

cheers
Chris

[Expat]

Chris,

Unfortunately there is no history on this.

Regards,

Expat

[rbracing]

Can anyone help me with any history of my Brabham BT21A-2. please? The data prior to 1990 I have seems confused. I am also interested in any photos etc. indicating original colours.

rb

[Chris Townsend]

Most 21As were sold in America for the FB series.
I only have limited period information for a very few British based cars.
What names and other data do you have on the history? We may be able to join the dots with known 21A users where I don't know the actual car

Chris

[rbracing]

Chris,
your post of 12Dec04 refers to BT21A-12. I believe, and my papers support it, that it is in fact #-2. I do have a picture of the car with John Fenning at Prescott. There is a "Supplied by Frank Williams" decal on the side of the nose. Other owners listed are John Longfield, Jim Charnock,Robin Darlington, Steve Malins, Harvey ????,Roger Murray, Graham North and prior to myself, Stephan Foster. It may have been that the car was originally in F2/Libre spec. but competed in several different specs. It has the original number gearbox but is known to have had the original (?) TwinCam replaced with a Fiat twin cam in a sprint form before being returned to its original and present spec.
At present I have only a couple of B+W photographs and some race reports from Autosport in the '70's. If there is any interest, and I knew how to, I would post some past and present photographs.
I only came across this site a couple of days ago. I must say how interesting it is. The depth of knowledge staggering and I have only visited this historic forum so far!
Regards

[Chris Townsend]

rb

I'll have to go back into my Brabham notes file and see where my original note of this car being chassis 12 came from.
My ownership trail for it in period runs Stockbridge Racing late 67 for John Fenning [and I understand it to be new at this point], sold by Stockbridge to Sir Nick Williamson mid 68; Williamson to Robin Darlington to Jim Charnock during 1969; kept by Charnock for a couple of years and then turns up at a libre race at Thruxton, May 72, described as owned by Williams [presumably part of a deal] but driven by John Wingfield.

Both Ted Walker and Bryan Miller can probably help here with their extensive Brabham records!

Chris

[James Murray]

My dad has the history of this car, I will ask him. From memory it was the first car to have willans harnesses installed by J Fenning. It was always a Twincam F Libre from new, I don't recall it ever racing in f2, just club racing and then hillclimbing by a guy called Harvey Hodgson from Blackpool. Original colours were the same as works Titan F3 cars. Ted put my dad on to it in about 1987 and he bought it from Mr Hodgson as rolling chassis with Hewland mk 5 gearbox.

[Ted Walker]

Roger. I told you all this months ago when I gave you some photos. You should repaint it metallic blue as it was when owned by Stockbridge Racing .( John Fenning)

[rbracing]

Hello James,
Thanks for the confirmation of much of the informatiom given to me by Ted W. I briefly met your father at Silverstone last October. I hope to be able to find time to contact him as I have his race results etc with the car. I have considered repainting the car but your comparison with the works Titans confirmed what I feared it might be mistaken for.
It is the period of ownership prior to John Fenning that is unclear. That is 1. Tony Griffiths. 2. John Brown. 3. John Ravescroft. 4. Frank Williams. A lot of changes of ownership in a very short period!
Many thanks for your interest.
Regards

[Steve Wilkinson]

I assume - who was it that said never assume? - that it was a mistake when you listed 'John Ravescroft' as one of the owners? It was in deed JOHN RAVENSCROFT who shared the car with his dad Arthur.

BT21A-9 was used by the Ravenscrofts throughout 1971. At the end of the season it was sold to Rodger Hartley who used the car during both 1972 and 1973. It then passed out of the Sprint and Hillclimb disciplines or at least the competitive reaches.

[Teretonga]

The Graham Harvey BT 21 that went to NZ was also painted in the Titan colours when it ran in it's first season in NZ. I had the idea that it was a second hand 21A but the details here seem yo be different.

[spook]

At the Historic Races at Queensland Raceway last week-end, a BT-21C was advertised for sale as:- "1968 Brabham BT21C, ex-Phillipe de Lespernay (USA), ex-Russ Baldwin (USA), unwanted restoration project."

Can anyone shed any light on this car or it's history.

What engine/gearbox should it have?

Thanks

[allenbrown]

Maybe T54 can tell us more?

Allen

[David McKinney]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Maybe T54 can tell us more?
Allen

Does he post here, or only in The Other Place?

[allenbrown]

You may be right David. I swap about so much I sometimes lose track.