The British Grand Prix - post race discussion (merged) - Page 3

Dutton · 10 Jul 2005, 23:14 (Ref:1352131)

Overtaking is a nice thing, and I do enjoy seeing it when it occurs. Indeed, there is a reasonable case it it should figure as a prominent feature of a race.

However, I can't agree that racing equals overtaking, or overtaking equals the point of racing (I think you were meaning something along these lines; even if you don't this still remains my view :-p). Those sort of ideas I cannot agree with.

The racing part is simply a group of people trying to cross the finish line first (or being satsified with as close to first as they can realistically expect to achieve). Overtaking and side-by-side action et al is a side-effect of that effort to finish as far up the field as possible, not the integral thing around which the event revolves.

At least in my view.

Speed · 10 Jul 2005, 23:26 (Ref:1352132)

Montoya could give you more overtakings, but there were no more cars in front of him during the race [except for backmarkers]..., sorry guys.

Gaz · 11 Jul 2005, 09:25 (Ref:1352361)

When Raikkonen...in a car over a second a lap quicker than Schumacher can't make an overtaking move then you know you have problems!

I personally don't expect F1 to be overtaking on every corner, wheel bashing, finger pointing stuff....I go watch Touring Cars for that. I do expect to see more than just, 20 cars going around, around, around and around without anything happening bar the gaps fluctuating by the odd tenth or two for 60 laps. As in the example above in a motor race quicker cars should be able to overtake slower ones...or at least have a decent go....Kimi couldn't due to the aero, everytime he got anywhere near he just washed out due to the lack of downforce.

If you hadn't seen F1 before or if you'd only been there Sunday you would probably have enjoyed it because the noise, speed etc is sensational. But when you've been there Fri-Sun by the end of Sat that kind of excitement has gone and you expect to be entertained with a race...if I wanted to watch a procession I'd pay 50p and go my local fete!

Mr V · 11 Jul 2005, 09:30 (Ref:1352366)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaz

When Raikkonen...in a car over a second a lap quicker than Schumacher can't make an overtaking move then you know you have problems!

I have to say, i'm confused by this. As you say, he couldn't get past a slower Ferrari, but could get past the Renault? - yes i know, Kimi was light, Fernando wasn't, but i would have thought the time difference was about the same as the McLaren/Ferrari difference.

Gaz · 11 Jul 2005, 09:58 (Ref:1352387)

True, but I think Fernando had the message that he wasn't racing (in reality) Kimi and so didn't put up too much of a fight to be honest

Menelaos · 11 Jul 2005, 10:09 (Ref:1352391)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

I have to say, i'm confused by this. As you say, he couldn't get past a slower Ferrari, but could get past the Renault? - yes i know, Kimi was light, Fernando wasn't, but i would have thought the time difference was about the same as the McLaren/Ferrari difference.

Fernando had no reason to fight. He was easily second, Raikkonen was one full pit stop behind. Why would he care to fight? Plus, Raikkonen was empty while Alonso had just come out of the pits. On the other hand, Schumacher had no reason to let Raikkonen past him, and Trulli had no reason to let Schumacher. With MS, Raikkonen needed to fight, which he tried to, but he was running wide each time he was near him. That's a crazy thing and it must be changed asap.

Don K · 11 Jul 2005, 11:16 (Ref:1352438)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menelaos

Fernando had no reason to fight. He was easily second, Raikkonen was one full pit stop behind. Why would he care to fight? Plus, Raikkonen was empty while Alonso had just come out of the pits. On the other hand, Schumacher had no reason to let Raikkonen past him, and Trulli had no reason to let Schumacher. With MS, Raikkonen needed to fight, which he tried to, but he was running wide each time he was near him. That's a crazy thing and it must be changed asap.

OK, so Raikkonen was able to overtake cars who did *not* try to defend, and he was *not* able to overtake cars who *did* defend.

Can't see what's wrong with that.

Kempi · 11 Jul 2005, 11:31 (Ref:1352454)

It looked to me that Raikkönen and Alonso were running a lot of wing and MS wasn't.

On a track like Silver, high downforce makes sense because of all the fast sweepers. However, it doesn't help your straightline speed (yes, Kimi is topping the charts at split 1, but that was because of slipstream) and without straightline speed you cant pass a car that has less downforce. Thus Kimi could pass Alonso but not MS.

Red Baron · 11 Jul 2005, 12:24 (Ref:1352507)

I was lucky enough to be at Silverstone for the race and the noise and speed of the cars never fails to amaze me. Silverstone is a fantastic venue;good facilities, good places to view. I had a great time.

However, I do agree that the race was less than inspiring. JPM and Kimi did a great job, but that was about it.

I think they need to be allowed to change tyres during the race. Time was, when someone like Michael was 10 seconds or so behind, he'd put in some blistering laps with the car on the ragged edge to try and catch up. Now that sort of driving is worth watching. Unfortunately, this weekend he just seemed to trundle round in 6th place. Granted the car just isn't fast enough, but I guess he (and others) just daren't put the car on the ragged edge for fear of ruining the tyres.

Rosie

Gerben24 · 11 Jul 2005, 12:47 (Ref:1352541)

The most excitement was shown in the pre-race-show were they showed Schumi bump in the back of Heidfeld. I understand this happened on Friday. Is Schumi losing it? Anybody know why he did this? I wasn't surprised this incident wasn't investigated, he is afterall FIA's favorite son. If it had been Montoya he would probably been disqualified...

**Adam43** · 11 Jul 2005, 12:50 (Ref:1352545)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerben24

If it had been Montoya he would probably been disqualified...

fact!
What actually happened? I didn't see it. Where on the circuit? etc...

djinvicta · 11 Jul 2005, 12:53 (Ref:1352548)

Adam; he was coming into the pits on pitlane, Heidfeld slowed, TGF didnt and bumped him in the rear. Morning practise I believe

**Adam43** · 11 Jul 2005, 14:01 (Ref:1352628)

Thanks.

Was it a light or heavy impact?

Gerben24 · 11 Jul 2005, 16:01 (Ref:1352747)

If you go to the formula1.com website and go to the tv images link you will see an image of Schumi bumping into Heidfeld (it is the 3rd picture from the left under Friday practice). If you look REALLY closely, you will see bits coming of the Ferrari...

Menelaos · 11 Jul 2005, 16:06 (Ref:1352751)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don K

OK, so Raikkonen was able to overtake cars who did *not* try to defend, and he was *not* able to overtake cars who *did* defend.

Can't see what's wrong with that.

Nothing's wrong with *that*. I was just explaining why Raikkonen was able to pass Alonso. What *is* wrong is that Raikkonen had a much better car (at least 1sec/lap faster) and he was unable to pass MS and Trulli because he couldn't stay near them with the stupid aero stuff. Isn't *that* wrong? When one of the best drivers can't pass a much slower car? So, what's the deal? Do we only want to see cars waiting to pit?

EDIT: Raikkonen *really* wanted to pass cause if he could be in front of them from the first rounds he could challenge for the win. Staying there until they pitted just ruined his race. So, it's not that he didn't care too much. He did want to pass, he tried a few times and he always ran wide. Isn't that a bit bad for the sport?

djinvicta · 11 Jul 2005, 20:15 (Ref:1352939)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Thanks.

Was it a light or heavy impact?

Depends what youre into! Gentle poke I would call it, one German to another!

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