Toyota To V8Supercars!!!! (With POLL)

[Mixer]

Funny because Ford won everything when they had 888, and then Penske.

What does that tell you?

Also one very good reason the best Ford team are going to homologate the Supra.

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[Ares]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Ford and previously Nissan.

Merc & Volvo? pretty much anything not GM. Six Fords in the top ten so far this year. One is only a handful of points off P2. Seemed to be a couple of fast Fords at the Mountain on the weekend, just not as good a racecars on the Sunday. The current speed between the cars is crazy close, I'm not sure what you are hinting at?

[Mixer]

Anti Ford conspiracy except somehow except when Penske or 888 dominate in them, and no amount of data they scream for fits the narrative.

Lap times were incredibly close who knew a Bathurst with only one safety car would result in gaps between cars?

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[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Funny because Ford won everything when they had 888, and then Penske.

What does that tell you?

Also one very good reason the best Ford team are going to homologate the Supra.

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So far it's been a big mistake by Ford to continue in this category imo, whether that continues to be the case we will have to wait and see but so far they have paid out millions to teams that have won nothing of substance and have only made the mustang look undesirable, maybe the only way out for ford is to withdraw from the category and refuse to let the mustang body shape to be used, the remaining Ford teams would then have to reskin their cars as chevs or toyotas. It won't surprise me if toyota suffer the same fate as ford and nissan.

[Ares]

Originally Posted by bluesport

So far it's been a big mistake by Ford to continue in this category imo, whether that continues to be the case we will have to wait and see but so far they have paid out millions to teams that have won nothing of substance and have only made the mustang look undesirable, maybe the only way out for ford is to withdraw from the category and refuse to let the mustang body shape to be used, the remaining Ford teams would then have to reskin their cars as chevs or toyotas. It won't surprise me if toyota suffer the same fate as ford and nissan.

The two top teams over the past two years run GM. As I said, there are six Fords in the top ten, First Ford is a few points off second place in the championship this year so far. If a Ford won yesterday then all the Ford money spent would be worth it now?

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Ares

The two top teams over the past two years run GM. As I said, there are six Fords in the top ten, First Ford is a few points off second place in the championship this year so far. If a Ford won yesterday then all the Ford money spent would be worth it now?

Well it hasn't happened and I thought Ford was on a bit of a roll until Sandown, the thing is will WAU be able to construct a toyota that can win.

I can't help but wonder is Supercars were desperate to get another manufacturer in case Ford walks out?

[Kingair]

Let’s hope the second Toyota team are not running around the back of the grid!

[Ares]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Well it hasn't happened and I thought Ford was on a bit of a roll until Sandown, the thing is will WAU be able to construct a toyota that can win.

I can't help but wonder is Supercars were desperate to get another manufacturer in case Ford walks out?

Has WAU really made anything they have run win? You are talking about the teams running the cars more than the cars themselves. If 888 went to Ford next year, do you think they would never win again?

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Ares

Has WAU really made anything they have run win? You are talking about the teams running the cars more than the cars themselves. If 888 went to Ford next year, do you think they would never win again?

T8 would win, they just have something that the others don't.

[Ares]

Originally Posted by bluesport

T8 would win, they just have something that the others don't.

Yes they do. Winnings teams all have something the others don't, or don't have consistently. It is not easy to do, bake the perfect cake. And then bake it again and again. RD could start another team tomorrow, in time they would start winning. He knows what you need to bake a cake.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Ares

Yes they do. Winnings teams all have something the others don't, or don't have consistently. It is not easy to do, bake the perfect cake. And then bake it again and again. RD could start another team tomorrow, in time they would start winning. He knows what you need to bake a cake.

Steven Grove and Peter Xibberas look to have watched some of Roland's cooking demo's on YouTube and wanted to run a cafe with some of his chefs


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[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Ares

Yes they do. Winnings teams all have something the others don't, or don't have consistently. It is not easy to do, bake the perfect cake. And then bake it again and again. RD could start another team tomorrow, in time they would start winning. He knows what you need to bake a cake.

So will toyota be a winning brand with WAU at the helm?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by bluesport

So will toyota be a winning brand with WAU at the helm?

Depends who the second team is…

[Matador]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Grove???

Thought for a second I was in the Formula 1 thread and this was about Williams F1

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

I can't help but wonder if Toyota will simply be another manufacturer on the grid making up the numbers but with no real chance of winning?

That's down to the teams running the manufacturers cars of course. Gen 3 has very high levels of technical parity, with both aero and engine testing this year resulting in small tweaks to get everything the same. The rest is down to how well the teams adjust the cars (which still have a lot of set up changes available) and how well the drivers drive.

If a manufacturer has only one team running its product, then in the previous generations of Supercars it would be hard to get a real insight into parity (or not) as results, as I mention above, are still heavily influenced by the team (that's naturally why we see some cars from the same manufacturer up the front and others from the same brand much further back).

With the current parity testing regime, it'll be down to how well Toyota recruits teams to run their cars. WAU is a good choice & a team that runs at or near the front, the choice of second team will be interesting - & having four cars on track will assist with checking how effectively they've been paritised.

Originally Posted by bluesport

Ford and previously Nissan.

Ford has won (so far) 7 races this year & won 5 last year, supposedly "with no real chance of winning". Ford also won plenty of overall championships with previous generation cars (most recently in 2020) so the suggested "no real chance of winning" is clearly false. With today's Gen 3 cars and the testing regime for parity showing real equality, results are down to the teams and no doubt Ford execs rue the day that their predecessors dumped 888 and also wish that DJR could re-kindle some of its 2019/2020 form.

Nissan was up against it in the (then) parity system - choosing to run a top-heavy, designed-for-higher-revs 4 valve engine against pushrods in a rev-limited set of rules but also having one team, whose results with Nissans were pretty similar to the results it achieved with Holdens.

Short version: I can see Toyota being competitive under the current regime of Gen 3 and it may even win races and/or championships - but that will depend on how well the teams concerned do their thing.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Tourer

That's down to the teams running the manufacturers cars of course. Gen 3 has very high levels of technical parity, with both aero and engine testing this year resulting in small tweaks to get everything the same. The rest is down to how well the teams adjust the cars (which still have a lot of set up changes available) and how well the drivers drive.

If a manufacturer has only one team running its product, then in the previous generations of Supercars it would be hard to get a real insight into parity (or not) as results, as I mention above, are still heavily influenced by the team (that's naturally why we see some cars from the same manufacturer up the front and others from the same brand much further back).

With the current parity testing regime, it'll be down to how well Toyota recruits teams to run their cars. WAU is a good choice & a team that runs at or near the front, the choice of second team will be interesting - & having four cars on track will assist with checking how effectively they've been paritised.


Ford has won (so far) 7 races this year & won 5 last year, supposedly "with no real chance of winning". Ford also won plenty of overall championships with previous generation cars (most recently in 2020) so the suggested "no real chance of winning" is clearly false. With today's Gen 3 cars and the testing regime for parity showing real equality, results are down to the teams and no doubt Ford execs rue the day that their predecessors dumped 888 and also wish that DJR could re-kindle some of its 2019/2020 form.

Nissan was up against it in the (then) parity system - choosing to run a top-heavy, designed-for-higher-revs 4 valve engine against pushrods in a rev-limited set of rules but also having one team, whose results with Nissans were pretty similar to the results it achieved with Holdens.

Short version: I can see Toyota being competitive under the current regime of Gen 3 and it may even win races and/or championships - but that will depend on how well the teams concerned do their thing.

Ford haven't won a championship nor have they won Bathurst, would you be putting money on them to win one of these titles in 2025?

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Ford haven't won a championship nor have they won Bathurst, would you be putting money on them to win one of these titles in 2025?

Ford has won multiple championships, the last in 2020 and also multiple Bathursts, the last in 2019.

Anything's possible in 2025, that's the beauty of a parity structure - for example, having Kostecki in the car might be the last bit of the puzzle that DJR needs to be back to regular front-running again.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Ford has won multiple championships, the last in 2020 and also multiple Bathursts, the last in 2019.

Anything's possible in 2025, that's the beauty of a parity structure - for example, having Kostecki in the car might be the last bit of the puzzle that DJR needs to be back to regular front-running again.

I'm talking Gen3.

Will the addition of Kostecki at DJR be enough for you to put money on them to win the championship or Bathurst in 2025?

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by bluesport

I'm talking Gen3.

Will the addition of Kostecki at DJR be enough for you to put money on them to win the championship or Bathurst in 2025?

Ah OK - then no, Ford teams haven't won the series or Bathurst in the 2 years of Gen3.

Re Kostecki and DJR, I guess we'll see how they go next year. It's one of the great things about sport that there are no certainties but it would be tempting to drop a few lazy bucks on Kostecki/DJR for next year - might just make something happen.

Apparently car 1 was 8:1 in the odds to win Bathurst, bet those who backed are feeling pretty good right now.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Apparently car 1 was 8:1 in the odds to win Bathurst, bet those who backed are feeling pretty good right now.

To paraphrase the Wolf of Wall Street… my only regret is that I didn’t bet more

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Ah OK - then no, Ford teams haven't won the series or Bathurst in the 2 years of Gen3.

Re Kostecki and DJR, I guess we'll see how they go next year. It's one of the great things about sport that there are no certainties but it would be tempting to drop a few lazy bucks on Kostecki/DJR for next year - might just make something happen.

Apparently car 1 was 8:1 in the odds to win Bathurst, bet those who backed are feeling pretty good right now.

Good post......agree with you.

[Ares]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Steven Grove and Peter Xibberas look to have watched some of Roland's cooking demo's on YouTube and wanted to run a cafe with some of his chefs


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Yes, that's called a shortcut to winning. The hope is these guys who were helping to bake the cake at 888, know the recipe. Often people know some or most of the recipe, but often not all of the recipe. They were in a group of people baking pretty good cake. Some may start to think that this is easy and think they themselves are doing most of the baking. They move to a new team with different people and a different team dynamic. They try to bake the cake there, but for some reason the cake won't come out the same? Same ingredients but never the same outcome? They look back and see the old team are still making pretty good cake without them, they then realise they never had the full recipe. Roland has that, he wrote it.

I have seen it here in NZ too. Guys who have run many different cars in different series and classes over many year, and win a lot in what ever they run. Different drivers and engineers, different crews and always run up front.
These people are often very good with the big brush, but need good people with a small brush to just tidy up around the edges. These guys doing the tiding up work can sometime think they can do the big brush as well, but when they take the big brush they find its a lot harder to use than they thought. No surprise that most of these big brush guys are successful business men. Motor racing is a fascinating industry on many levels.

[GTRMagic]

Who will be the other Toyota team?

[Ares]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Who will be the other Toyota team?

I could be living under a rock? What is in place to say there are going to have to be two Toyota teams? I haven't really looked into the deal.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Ares

I could be living under a rock? What is in place to say there are going to have to be two Toyota teams? I haven't really looked into the deal.

Toyota stated at least 4 Supras will run.

Who wouldn't take the chance to go under WAU when you are suffering under DJR?

But I guess many hope the second team will come from Chev

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