[WEC] Aston Martin Hypercar Discussion

[carbsmith]

I'm starting to think LMP1 is a curse for manufacturers.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

So Aston Martin lost almost $100m in 2Q19 and their share price is down 75% since their IPO in April. I’m not liking the chances of an expanded AMR racing program and their ability to move forward as an independent company.

If it's based on the road Valkyrie or the pro, there's a chance that they can make a little bit of money in sales if there's teams wanting to run one or two.

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by TF110

If it's based on the road Valkyrie or the pro, there's a chance that they can make a little bit of money in sales if there's teams wanting to run one or two.

What if it is based on the massive economic problems the auto industry & the EU/UK currently face along with the fact that Andy Palmer thought it was a good idea to go public in the middle of Brexit?

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

What if it is based on the massive economic problems the auto industry & the EU/UK currently face along with the fact that Andy Palmer thought it was a good idea to go public in the middle of Brexit?

My point is theres a car already made in the Valkyrie. If the race car is based on it with some upgrades, the investment might not be on the chopping block because it doesn't lose money (like the company has). So if it's somehow profitable, it has a lower chance of being cancelled.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

So Aston Martin lost almost $100m in 2Q19 and their share price is down 75% since their IPO in April. I’m not liking the chances of an expanded AMR racing program and their ability to move forward as an independent company.

The Valkyrie is a project of Red Bull too, designed by Adrian Newey and presented on track for first time with the blue and red of Red Bull, then it could be Red Bull who supports the WEC project.

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

The Valkyrie is a project of Red Bull too, designed by Adrian Newey and presented on track for first time with the blue and red of Red Bull, then it could be Red Bull who supports the WEC project.

Aston Martin are a major sponsor of Red Bull F1. Thus, I don’t know how much sense it would make for RB to fund the project after losing a major sponsor that has their name on the car.

It’s like:

“Hey we need to cut the sponsorship of your racing team by $50m because our CEO is an idiot and caused our company to lose 75% of its value while loading it up with debt. But....will you find ours?

Thanks,
AMR”

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by TF110

My point is theres a car already made in the Valkyrie. If the race car is based on it with some upgrades, the investment might not be on the chopping block because it doesn't lose money (like the company has). So if it's somehow profitable, it has a lower chance of being cancelled.

Unless the project is sold off in liquidation or totally frozen in bankruptcy

[TF110]

I think your scenario is unlikely. Not saying it cant happen but we'll have to see if they become profitable. With their (stupid imo) SUV they might save the company if it's somewhat affordable.

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by TF110

I think your scenario is unlikely. Not saying it cant happen but we'll have to see if they become profitable. With their (stupid imo) SUV they might save the company if it's somewhat affordable.

The problem is they don’t currently have the necessary capital to get to get the DBX to production and all of their options to raise it are pretty terrible (and I think the DBX is way overpriced in a very crowded marketplace - it’s not a very good looking car to begin with). Not to mention, the EU & UK are headed into some uncertain economic times, and that is going to hit the demand for high end cars significantly. The other strike against AM is their sales numbers are going to fall significantly until the firm presents some reasonable path forward.

At this point, someone (probably a Chinese firm) is going to have to buy out the company for the branding because their business model is past the point of repair.

[Adam43]

Not good looking? Sounds perfect for the market that will be footballers who want a posh X6. Take their money.

[Dyson Mazda]

Wow hedge funds started shorting Aston Martin’s debt (which costs a fortune to do and is quite risky). That is a really horrific sign.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

Wow hedge funds started shorting Aston Martin’s debt (which costs a fortune to do and is quite risky). That is a really horrific sign.

That's definitely not good and I'm thinking there won't be an Arabian investment group or other savior. It looks like they're most likely out of the hypercar and F1 sponsor game soon sadly. Maybe someone will buy the scraps and we'll see them saved but I think it will have to be seriously condensed business.

[chernaudi]

They probably should've stayed a private limited company instead of going public.

[Mike E]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

They probably should've stayed a private limited company instead of going public.

And may end up getting taken private again. At a knock down price.

[Dyson Mazda]

Originally Posted by Mike E

And may end up getting taken private again. At a knock down price.

I think bankruptcy and liquidation are more likely (with someone buying the name in this process). AML has way too much debt on their books and their ownership is not going to accept 75% declines in the value of their equity.

[Mike E]

https://www.theguardian.com/business...CMP=GTUK_email

[broadrun96]

Well looks like AMR has cut costs but sticking with the Valkyrie's big engine alone, detuned by 30-35% and RWD only to meet the new regs.

The biz speak at the end of the article is heavy "During our time in racing since 2005, we’ve had various headwinds to the business,” he said.

“We’ve always remained true to our commitment to racing in sports cars. We’ve been through various global banking crises in 2008.

“That hit us all hard, but we stayed with it. We carried on racing. Having some headwinds in our business at the moment doesn’t alter our commitment to racing at all.”

[TF110]

They're going to be mega fast that's for sure.

[LC2guy]

Originally Posted by TF110

They're going to be mega fast that's for sure.

Just like LMP1 Privateers are now... If they are Mega, Toyota must be SUPERMEGA ! Unless a proper OEM comes in for Hypercar, we are in for more Toyota Bore walkovers for the forseeable future. It's not their fault they have no competition, but they are just a Very Boring Brand.

[joeb]

AMR president says that current shareprices don't influence racing plans

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/0...to-racing.html

Also talks about how LMP2 will have to be slowed down as not to be faster than the hypercars. But also mentions that LMP2 should still have a chance if a hypercar is poorly built or run. Interesting take there from somebody involved.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by joeb

AMR president says that current shareprices don't influence racing plans

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/0...to-racing.html

Also talks about how LMP2 will have to be slowed down as not to be faster than the hypercars. But also mentions that LMP2 should still have a chance if a hypercar is poorly built or run. Interesting take there from somebody involved.

And whos previous top class effort was exactly that (poorly built)

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by CTD

And whos previous top class effort was exactly that (poorly built)

That's an insult to poorly built cars, it was a train wreck with no chance of success. At least Nissan's poorly built attempt actually ran a few laps

[TF110]

Originally Posted by LC2guy

Just like LMP1 Privateers are now... If they are Mega, Toyota must be SUPERMEGA ! Unless a proper OEM comes in for Hypercar, we are in for more Toyota Bore walkovers for the forseeable future. It's not their fault they have no competition, but they are just a Very Boring Brand.

I'm not talking about lap times, because I have no idea what those will be. I'm speaking of the (top) speeds of the cars. Right now the private cars are approaching 700hp, these new ones without the hybrid will be 750hp and probably more. I wonder if they will break 360kmh. I think it's possible that will happen because of the shapes of these cars and the amount of power they will have. What will slow them down is all the unnecessary weight they have compared to now.

[hondafan37]

Aston Martin is set have four Valkyrie hypercars on the grid for the 2020/21 FIA World Endurance Championship season split across two teams, Multimatic and R-Motorsport.

https://www.motorsport.com/wec/news/...-holt/4540647/

[Simmi]

Amazing news!