WEC BoP. Brilliant or Pants. - Page 3

**joeb** · 10 Jun 2022, 15:29 (Ref:4114027)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

They goofed by going for pole. Zero sympathy here.

I gotta agree, take the extra power improve lap time by a second or two, everybody seems satisfied, then unleash in the race!

**Aysedasi** · 10 Jun 2022, 15:33 (Ref:4114030)

Just soooo obvious.....

The real question now is whether Glickenhaus played it more carefully.....

tomcug · 10 Jun 2022, 15:48 (Ref:4114034)

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeb

So basically they were allowed to go for pole, and now back to normal....

What's more funny, the ACO took away more power than they gave them before hyperpole

**Aysedasi** · 10 Jun 2022, 17:54 (Ref:4114063)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcug

What's more funny, the ACO took away more power than they gave them before hyperpole

You make your bed and then you have to lie in it, as they say.....

Tique · 10 Jun 2022, 21:15 (Ref:4114103)

And the 2022 24 Hours of Le Mans is ….. Toyota
Watching thé free practice yesterday evening I was thinking that we will have a bloody good race. But Alpine has been too close to Toyota and thé WEC correct it straight away. If Toyota do not finish thé race leading by 8 / 10 laps, it is not possible.
I am feeling that I have been robbed here. We will ser on sunday at 16:00 but I am really feeling that it will be an easy one for Toyota Again.
A vaincre sans péril, on triomphe sans gloire…

Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

canaglia · 10 Jun 2022, 22:00 (Ref:4114109)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tique

And the 2022 24 Hours of Le Mans is ….. Toyota
Watching thé free practice yesterday evening I was thinking that we will have a bloody good race. But Alpine has been too close to Toyota and thé WEC correct it straight away. If Toyota do not finish thé race leading by 8 / 10 laps, it is not possible.
I am feeling that I have been robbed here. We will ser on sunday at 16:00 but I am really feeling that it will be an easy one for Toyota Again.
A vaincre sans péril, on triomphe sans gloire…

Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

At the moment biggest toyota rival is their own reliability.

**skycafe** · 11 Jun 2022, 01:02 (Ref:4114116)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

The real question now is whether Glickenhaus played it more carefully.....

Hasn't it been quiet on that front? I have not seen any comments from Mr. Glickenhaus in the media during the week.
Has anyone?

**skycafe** · 11 Jun 2022, 01:05 (Ref:4114117)

Quote:

Originally Posted by canaglia

At the moment biggest toyota rival is their own reliability.

Makes it intriguing!

broadrun96 · 11 Jun 2022, 01:20 (Ref:4114118)

Quote:

Originally Posted by skycafe

Hasn't it been quiet on that front? I have not seen any comments from Mr. Glickenhaus in the media during the week.
Has anyone?

Well he did sell access to a Whatsapp group with team talk and news for LM week with the top tier sponsor packages so he might limit it to there for now

**skycafe** · 11 Jun 2022, 01:35 (Ref:4114121)

Kind of a shame, that. For the Americans his is the home team.

Well, and Penske's LMP2 jaunt.

**Aysedasi** · 11 Jun 2022, 06:55 (Ref:4114141)

Quote:

Originally Posted by skycafe

Hasn't it been quiet on that front? I have not seen any comments from Mr. Glickenhaus in the media during the week.
Has anyone?

I just heard that they weren't going for pole as they knew they didn't have that kind of top speed. Quiet is good I reckon - keep your powder dry. If they get a reliable run with one or both cars, they could surprise a few people.

tomcug · 11 Jun 2022, 07:51 (Ref:4114147)

If that was the case, clearly a very clever choice. I guess they didn't need some extra weight as a result of post-quali BOP adjustment

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tique

Watching thé free practice yesterday evening I was thinking that we will have a bloody good race. But Alpine has been too close to Toyota and thé WEC correct it straight away.

They were too greedy, it's not wise to put a 3:24 lap (faster than they did last year with 600 hp!) in a grandfathered LMP1 car. The risk for negative BOP was there.

**skycafe** · 11 Jun 2022, 08:14 (Ref:4114151)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I just heard that they weren't going for pole as they knew they didn't have that kind of top speed. Quiet is good I reckon - keep your powder dry. If they get a reliable run with one or both cars, they could surprise a few people.

That is the sort of commentary I expected to show up in the press from someone who caught up with him for a comment.

Something along the lines of 'we came to race,' or such.

**skycafe** · 11 Jun 2022, 08:18 (Ref:4114153)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcug

They were too greedy, it's not wise to put a 3:24 lap (faster than they did last year with 600 hp!) in a grandfathered LMP1 car. The risk for negative BOP was there.

It all feels like carefully coordinated dance, or better yet chess, knowingly ending up exactly where you want to be.

S griffin · 11 Jun 2022, 08:47 (Ref:4114158)

It's a shame we've had a bit of meddling, let's just hope it doesn't affect the race too much and there can be a good battle for the win

V8 Fireworks · 11 Jun 2022, 11:02 (Ref:4114179)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tique

And the 2022 24 Hours of Le Mans is ….. Toyota

Toyota is the only professional protoype team with F1-level facilities and the prerequisite 80m EUR budget AFAIK. Why shouldn't they win until other comparable teams appear, as opposed to privateers (Glickenhaus) and glorified privateers (i.e., when there is a real Alpine designed & built at Enstone with an engine designed in Viry instead of a rebranded customer car with a customer engine)?

canaglia · 11 Jun 2022, 11:53 (Ref:4114186)

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Toyota is the only professional protoype team with F1-level facilities and the prerequisite 80m EUR budget AFAIK. Why shouldn't they win until other comparable teams appear, as opposed to privateers (Glickenhaus) and glorified privateers (i.e., when there is a real Alpine designed & built at Enstone with an engine designed in Viry instead of a rebranded customer car with a customer engine)?

LM 2018 to 2022 in a nutshell.

kobefly · 11 Jun 2022, 12:37 (Ref:4114195)

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Toyota is the only professional protoype team with F1-level facilities and the prerequisite 80m EUR budget AFAIK. Why shouldn't they win until other comparable teams appear, as opposed to privateers (Glickenhaus) and glorified privateers (i.e., when there is a real Alpine designed & built at Enstone with an engine designed in Viry instead of a rebranded customer car with a customer engine)?

+1

**Adam43** · 11 Jun 2022, 13:06 (Ref:4114202)

Alpine pretty sanguine about it in the RLM interview just now.

Lasse · 11 Jun 2022, 16:44 (Ref:4114349)

Quote:

Originally Posted by gert

No but it was overtaken just a while ago, and there was nothing it could do.

And everybody is 30+ seconds behind Corvette.

Talk about getting BoP right...
Has it ever been THAT far off?

It sure seems like a miss on the GTE Pro BOP. And honestly, the way Toyota pulls away it doesn't look to good either. It is a little worrisome when looking forward when more cars will be joining the Hypercar class.

Or am I foreseing things way to negative?

gert · 11 Jun 2022, 16:48 (Ref:4114353)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasse

It sure seems like a miss on the GTE Pro BOP. And honestly, the way Toyota pulls away it doesn't look to good either. It is a little worrisome when looking forward when more cars will be joining the Hypercar class.

Or am I foreseing things way to negative?

I think GTE-Pro is even worse than Hypercar (and even that was a mess) especially considering how close it used to be.

Luckily there is LMP2 and GTE-Am to enjoy.

--

I am not too optimistic about them getting it right in the future either.

V8 Fireworks · 11 Jun 2022, 17:09 (Ref:4114370)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasse

It is a little worrisome when looking forward when more cars will be joining the Hypercar class.

Or am I foreseing things way to negative?

It seems that way. Some say the Oreca-Gibson LMP1 version used to be a lot faster which is true, but the TS050H also used to be a lot faster!

It would seem unfair to penalise Toyota for building a car to the new, slower set of regulations at considerable expense, by 'adjusting' other cars built to either the old faster regulations or on a much smaller budget to be just as fast or faster.

LMDh vs LMH will likely create many games mind you, especially when the LMDh regulations are theoretically much cheaper.

NB: I am all for LMP2 & LMP1 (both LMH & LMDh) being one class with straight-forward chassis and engine rules, where the chassis and engines need to be homologated and sold to privateers for a fixed price, where ALL the LMP cars can compete with a chance for outright victory (whether it's a Toyota-Toyota combo being run by the works Toyota team or by a private team, a Multimatic-Mazda combo, a Oreca-Gisbon combo or whatever).

IMSA are not blameless, it's like they don't want privateers with a generic Oreca-Gibson competing with the Oreca-Acura or Dallara-Cadillac for outright victory. But it would be such a rich field if all the prototypes were in the same class IMO!

gert · 11 Jun 2022, 17:23 (Ref:4114380)

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

IMSA are not blameless, it's like they don't want privateers with a generic Oreca-Gibson competing with the Oreca-Acura or Dallara-Cadillac for outright victory.

Indeed, they don't want that. But Acura and Cadillac don't want that either.

tomcug · 11 Jun 2022, 17:23 (Ref:4114381)

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

It would seem unfair to penalise Toyota for building a car to the new, slower set of regulations at considerable expense, by 'adjusting' other cars built to either the old faster regulations or on a much smaller budget to be just as fast or faster.

BOP is supposed to equalize cars, no matter that some of them are multi-million prototypes built by major manufacturers and others are much cheaper private efforts. What the ACO does has nothing to do with performance balancing, just try to get too close to the Toyotas and you get a penalty incoming immediately. And it's not about penalizing Toyotas, they're not in any way. It's about the others not having any chances to compete with them.

Lasse · 11 Jun 2022, 17:26 (Ref:4114384)

As also mentioned earlier in this thread, there is no doubt about Toyotas experience, facilities and financiel investment but should this matter in a BOP class?

Does this mean LMDh will get a "bad" BOP because they are cheaper? Will Porsche then get a better BOP because of their history and experience contra Caddilac who I'll expect will rely on Dallara to design their car?

The old Rebe...Alpine should not have been allowed to race imo, but Glickenhaus made a car for the new rules just as Toyota did. Did they spend the same amount of money as Toyota? No, but when has that been a requirement for a good BOP in a BOP class?

I am not sure if the hybrid of the Toyota is makeing the difference in traffic, but as I remember it the hybrid deployment have been nerfed somewhat?

Anyway, I look forward to all the new manufactores, I just fear how difficult it will be to make a "fair" BOP for everybody. Especielly at Le Mans.

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