[BTCC] BTCC News & Rumours 2025

[ahobson98]

Easy enough to save money.

- 8/9 rounds per season instead of 10
- Only have 1 20 minute FP session per weekend
- Harder tyres, and reduce the number of tyres available per weekend
- Could even do 2 races per weekend rather than 3
- Remove hybrid
- As mentioned above, limiting the number of team members
- Detune the engines by say 10 % to increase lifespan of parts

Problem is, people are too scared to try something new.

[Sodemo]

What is the approximate figure the engines produce? 380bhp?

[TinTopGrumpy]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

What is the approximate figure the engines produce? 380bhp?

350+ according to the BTCC website so 380 when they have the extra boost. Not really pushing it for a 2 litre turbo.

Swindons website says their BTCC engines are between 350 and 450 depending on the tune so they're running towards the bottom end of what they're built for.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by ahobson98

- 8/9 rounds per season instead of 10
- Only have 1 20 minute FP session per weekend
- Could even do 2 races per weekend rather than 3

You can combine these as just variations of 'less track time', and ultimately the amount of time on track is probably the biggest variable in costs.

Originally Posted by ahobson98

- Harder tyres, and reduce the number of tyres available per weekend
- As mentioned above, limiting the number of team members
- Detune the engines by say 10 % to increase lifespan of parts

Debatable how much difference any of these will make. Without reducing the tyre allocation they are still going to go through the same number of tyres regardless of the compound.
In the scheme of things I doubt that having an extra mechanic or two is going to make that much difference over the course of the season.
As with tyres, unless you change the engine allocation rules, detuning the engine isn't going to make much difference to costs. You'll still go through the same number of engines per year, and engine life isn't that much of an issue anyhow.

[coffinpilot]

As said on another thread a while ago by someone wiser than me - some of the personnel are there unpaid (apart from food and digs) and most of the suggestions (including mine - including the tongue in cheek part) could be implemented now with the current rules.

What tech areas could be changed to save money by a carry over of current cars?
Make them all run the TOCA engine? (if that was to happen it would be a stack 'em high and sell 'em cheap scenario.) What else on the cars could be turned into spec components from RML or another supplier? Is there a way of reducing spec parts? Is there any consumables that can be reduced?
Is there anything other than hybrid that could be taken away from the cars?

[Sodemo]

They could freeze the bodywork, I think they update front aero at least yearly (or they can).

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by coffinpilot

As said on another thread a while ago by someone wiser than me - some of the personnel are there unpaid (apart from food and digs) and most of the suggestions (including mine - including the tongue in cheek part) could be implemented now with the current rules.

What tech areas could be changed to save money by a carry over of current cars?
Make them all run the TOCA engine? (if that was to happen it would be a stack 'em high and sell 'em cheap scenario.) What else on the cars could be turned into spec components from RML or another supplier? Is there a way of reducing spec parts? Is there any consumables that can be reduced?
Is there anything other than hybrid that could be taken away from the cars?

It could be argued Spec components doesn't = low price..

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by billy bleach

It could be argued Spec components doesn't = low price..

But what is that argument, though? I would expect that if each team designed and manufactured every part, then that would, under normal circumstances, be more expensive that one manufacturer supplying an identical part to all teams. If only for reduced cost due to scale of production.

[Pickles]

Maybe with only having one supplier for hybrid components, one supplier for electronics, one supplier for suspension, etc the prices are higher than they could be.

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by Pickles

Maybe with only having one supplier for hybrid components, one supplier for electronics, one supplier for suspension, etc the prices are higher than they could be.

ummm obviously they would have gone through a tender process to find the most cost effective supplier

[redshoes]

https://btcc.net/toca-junior-champio...-launch-dates/

Lunch dates for new 2025 TOCA Juniors series.
13 Aug - invite only launch event
15 Aug - team/driver registrations open
24/25 Aug - car will be on display at Donington

Drivers must be 14-17 years old, max 26 entries

[Robin Marriott]

Looking at their LinkedIn (sorry), the shape of the car looks like a mk1 Scirocco from the side.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/toca-...ium=member_ios

Wonder what engine they’ll use. Can’t be many current engines which meet the 1800cc, Nat Asp, longitudinal format they’re going for.

[antnee]

A lot of the cost seen in recent years is the expensive developments that are looking for the last 1000th of a second. It won't be a popular option, but if you truly want to limit costs, then BOP has to play a major part. You need to stop teams from wanting/needing to go after every little bit of improvement, the extra this or that. Team sizes come into play too, number of heads (even voluntary) still cost a lot in food, accommodation, transport and kit over a year. If a 2 car team consisted of;
1 Team manager
2 Chief Engineers (1 per car)
2 No1 Mechs (1 per car
4 Mechs
1 tyre tech
1 social media person
Trucks need to be driver by the mechs/engineers/drivers.

[Mike Harte]

You can't, in reality, have HGVs driven by the mechanics, etc. because of their limited hours. If they are working on the cars that also counts in their driving time, so limiting what they can do on the Sunday. Don't forget that the truckies also take part in setting up the garages and putting up/taking down the hospitality units, so they really have enough to do already. I also thing that the driver's mates also work in the hospitality areas on the Saturdays and Sundays.

[tocatrucky]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

You can't, in reality, have HGVs driven by the mechanics, etc. because of their limited hours. If they are working on the cars that also counts in their driving time, so limiting what they can do on the Sunday. Don't forget that the truckies also take part in setting up the garages and putting up/taking down the hospitality units, so they really have enough to do already. I also thing that the driver's mates also work in the hospitality areas on the Saturdays and Sundays.

All the trucks are driven by us freelancers, we work a ''regular'' job during the week then get hired for the motorsport work on weekends. I can count on one hand across the entre TOCA paddock the number of spannermen and women with the necessary HGV licence. The vast majority of touring car crew at races are weekend warriors get paid a flat standard weekend rate (circa £125+accomodation in the support paddock) and that if they aren't already friends/family mucking in volunteering so cutting the staff on save money simply isn't going to happen. Adam Morgan, Tom Ingram and Aiden Moffat all have the licence though... Rob Austin drives the Speedworks units.

Savings would come on cost of parts, my guess is by opening the useage so reducing the number of control parts requiring the TOCA logo on them.

[Robin Marriott]

Yep. Adding more control parts would only drive cost up. I remember when Eurotech (v2) were a customer at my old job, some of the prices they mentioned for simple things were eye watering.

Jeff was a haggler and always wanted the best deal on the stuff we were doing for them, but when you’ve got to buy several sets of control arms or whatever to make sure you’re not caught short, and they can only come from Toca with no discount for bulk, that pushes the number up.

There was a lot of stuff we could have made cheaper for them but it wasn’t allowed.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Robin Marriott

Yep. Adding more control parts would only drive cost up. I remember when Eurotech (v2) were a customer at my old job, some of the prices they mentioned for simple things were eye watering.

Jeff was a haggler and always wanted the best deal on the stuff we were doing for them, but when you’ve got to buy several sets of control arms or whatever to make sure you’re not caught short, and they can only come from Toca with no discount for bulk, that pushes the number up.

There was a lot of stuff we could have made cheaper for them but it wasn’t allowed.

Problem is what would the organisers do with less TOCA-tax?

[MarcusH26]

https://btcc.net/un-limited-motorsport-with-duckhams-racing-building-competitive-future-in-the-btcc/

Un-Limited aiming to keep DeLeon and add a second car - is there another available Leon shell? Also aiming to enter TOCA Junior.

[TyH]

Originally Posted by MarcusH26

https://btcc.net/un-limited-motorsport-with-duckhams-racing-building-competitive-future-in-the-btcc/

Un-Limited aiming to keep DeLeon and add a second car - is there another available Leon shell? Also aiming to enter TOCA Junior.

They already own a second Cupra Chassis, it’s currently being built in the workshop ready for next season ?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by MarcusH26

https://btcc.net/un-limited-motorsport-with-duckhams-racing-building-competitive-future-in-the-btcc/

Un-Limited aiming to keep DeLeon and add a second car - is there another available Leon shell? Also aiming to enter TOCA Junior.

They seem to have a lot of chiefs; hopefully they also have enough indians, what with a team owner, team principal and a team manager.

[MarcusH26]

Originally Posted by TyH

They already own a second Cupra Chassis, it’s currently being built in the workshop ready for next season ?

Ah cool! I didn't know how many Cupras there were beyond the Un-Limited one , the 2 Restart Racing ones and the shell that went to Excler8 for parts.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by MarcusH26

Ah cool! I didn't know how many Cupras there were beyond the Un-Limited one , the 2 Restart Racing ones and the shell that went to Excler8 for parts.

Six built in total:

WPMS-NGTC-075
WPMS-NGTC-076
WPMS-NGTC-077
WPMS-NGTC-082
WPMS-NGTC-085
WPMS-NGTC-089

[SV8Predator]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

They seem to have a lot of chiefs; hopefully they also have enough indians, what with a team owner, team principal and a team manager.

Which is really of no concern, and not really sure what the point of your post is?

It's the vile smell of Team Hard that will hold them back.

[Pickles]

Don't forget that Un-Limited was basically formed by a group of people who are all owed hundreds of thousands of pounds by Gilham and his family. Bob Sharpless by his own admission doest know the first thing about running a race team which is why Dave Tyson and others have joined him. As a former employee myself (also owed thousands) I've been asked to go back.

[coffinpilot]

The second chassis they have is the one Deleon raced last year - supposedly one of the other two can't be touched because of finance against it.