[Official] Brazilian Grand Prix 2021: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 19 of 22

[bathurst77]

i must say lh and max side by side on the back row of the sprint is a tasty idea.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by gert

I think if they DQ Hamilton they will have little other choice but to DQ Verstappen as well.

There's a history of drivers getting DQ'ed when they touched their car after a race (espcally in lower formulae like GP2 or F3000), so I can't see how touching another competitor's car can only be a reprimand?

Especially considering he touched the one part of the car that's under scrutiny.
It could have been different if it was the front wing that was being investigated.

No, there is no history of that, Vettel once was reprimanded, nothing more than that

[tux]

It will end up being a reprimand or a no further action

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by EastonNeston

The rule is very clear, unless authorised, people, including drivers, are not allowed to touch the cars under Parc Ferme conditions.
Hopefully the stewards will do the right thing, and impose the maximum possible penalty of Verstappen.

Clearly the appropriate penalty is to chop his hand off! That will teach him!

Richard

[gert]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

No, there is no history of that, Vettel once was reprimanded, nothing more than that

There is.
Read again what I wrote. Especially in lower formulae like F3000 and GP2.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

i must say lh and max side by side on the back row of the sprint is a tasty idea.

Im ok with that.

[crmalcolm]

A further summons has now been issued to Mercedes:

A team representative is required to report to the Stewards at 10:30 in relation to the incident below.
No / Driver: 44 - Lewis Hamilton
Reason: Alleged breach of Article 3.6.3 of the FIA Formula One Technical Regulations.

[Beau2]

Helmut Marko has said that Mercedes are claiming that Max damaged the wing. A pretty pathetic claim if true - I van see an argument a touch from Max might complicate the legality (or illegality) of Hamilton's wing but to claim he damaged it is nonsense.

Of course, Marko could just be overly emphasising Mercedes' claims and ramping up the rhetoric like he usually does.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by gert

There is.
Read again what I wrote. Especially in lower formulae like F3000 and GP2.

So a very long time ago and not in F1, and it happened earlier in F1, but with nothing more than a reprimand

[gert]

It is unlikely to be true that Max damaged the wing.
However, it is not impossible he affected it.

The main problem here is he touched the part of the car that was afterwards found to be outside the regulations.

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

So a very long time ago and not in F1

So? A precendent nonetheless.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by gert

It is unlikely to be true that Max damaged the wing.
However, it is not impossible he affected it.

The main problem here is he touched the part of the car that was afterwards found to be outside the regulations.


So? A precendent nonetheless.

Because Max can apply more pressure to that wing with one hand than the downforce would do at 300 KPH? you got to be kidding right?

also it DID happen before in F1 and with nothing more than a reprimand (for Vettel at that time)

[gert]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

Because Max can apply more pressure to that wing with one hand than the downforce would do at 300 KPH? you got to be kidding right?

Did you read how they measure the legality?

It has something to do with the opening between the parts of the wings.
They can't measure it while on track, so they measure the difference between the part, which must below a certain number.

If that's a matter of milimeters, it is entirely possible to affect that, yes.


--

Nobody can prove Max affected the rear wing, nobody can prove the contrary either.
But he seems to have touched it, and now the things seems to be outside of the regulations.

Maybe it would not have been if Max had left it alone. That is the problem.

[steve nielsen]

They test the opening for MAXIMUM clearance

but what you are saying is that Max can apply more pressure to that wing with one hand than the pressure of the car going 320 KPH ?

Max is not from Krypton, you do know that right?

[gert]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

but what you are saying is that Max can apply more pressure to that wing with one hand than the pressure of the car going 320 KPH ?

That is NOT what I said, no.

They test for max clearance while the car is stationary.

They can't test the clearance while the car is at speed, obviously.
So maybe the clearance for one car or another is bigger while on track, there is no need to know or to test.

If it is a matter of milimeters it is not impossible for someone to appply enough pressure to affect the max clearance for a stationary car.


Did he, or did he not? That is impossible now for anyone to say.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

They test the opening for MAXIMUM clearance

but what you are saying is that Max can apply more pressure to that wing with one hand than the pressure of the car going 320 KPH ?

Max is not from Krypton, you do know that right?

He is not called Super Max for nothing.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by EastonNeston

The rule is very clear, unless authorised, people, including drivers, are not allowed to touch the cars under Parc Ferme conditions.
Hopefully the stewards will do the right thing, and impose the maximum possible penalty of Verstappen.

Article 34 Pre-Race Parc Fermé, of the 2021 Formula One Sporting Regulations doesn't mention that.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...2020-12-16.pdf

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by gert

That is NOT what I said, no.

They test for max clearance while the car is stationary.

They can't test the clearance while the car is at speed, obviously.
So maybe the clearance for one car or another is bigger while on track, there is no need to know or to test.

If it is a matter of milimeters it is not impossible for someone to appply enough pressure to affect the max clearance for a stationary car.


Did he, or did he not? That is impossible now for anyone to say.

Do you really understand as little about F1 cars to think Max could do anything to that wing with a few fingers?

I know you hate Max, but this is just plain silly.

[gert]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

I know you hate Max, but this is just plain silly.

No accusations necessary, my friend.

I don't generally hate drivers.
Sometimes I'm just not a fan of a particular driver, that's all.
I'm not a fan of Max.
I'm not a fan of Lewis.

Now what?

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

Do you really understand as little about F1 cars to think Max could do anything to that wing with a few fingers?

Like they said on Autosport, even if it is unlikely, he could have dislodged something that then could have affected the outcome of the measurements.
But, they too - probably - hate Max and now nothing about F1 cars?

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by gert

No accusations necessary, my friend.

I don't generally hate drivers.
Sometimes I'm just not a fan of a particular driver, that's all.

Your comments prove otherwise, it is more than just "not beeing a fan" in your comments about Max

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by steve nielsen

Do you really understand as little about F1 cars to think Max could do anything to that wing with a few fingers?

Let's be sensible here.

The opening has a maximum size (in mm) that is measured when no load is applied.
It is entirely possible that Max applied enough pressure to force the wing open by more than the permitted width.
When the car is moving, the size of the opening may be even more?

And if you want a more technical reason why Max (may) have been able to adjust the wing:

When the car is moving, the DRS flap is 'forced' closed by the air moving over the element. To open it (overcome the forces), hydraulic pressure is required.
When there is no air moving over the element, the amount of force required to open the DRS element may me very small - particularly if there is no hydraulic pressure in the actuator.
The entire systems is designed around the forces of aero and hydraulic pressure. Neither are present with the car stationary and engine off. So movements of parts may be very easy.

[crmalcolm]

I'm reading that an onboard from Alonso's car that shows Verstappen touching Hamilton's car is proving key in the FIA decision process?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Looking at the video, he doesn't appear to do very much to his or to Hamilton's rear wing.


https://youtu.be/bvMHq3t4YYY

[Sodemo]

Whilst I am pretty sure Max did nothing to the wing given the angle and situation, it IS possible to break or bend a wing if it’s bent in a direction it is not designed to be. That’s the reason a lot of wings have a “no pull / no push” message written on the rear of GT and touring car wings.

[tux]

They're stage managing this arent they? Announce any penalty 20 minutes before the sprint RACE for the social media "views/clicks". Its kinda depressing because you know what will happen, journalists will report it on social media, the fans of the punished driver will "go mental" and then journalists will come out complaining about the abuse from said fans without criticising the way the FIA/F1 are handling the situation. F1 might have improved its viewing numbers, social media engagement but its introduced a horrible tribalism.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by tux

They're stage managing this arent they?

While i wouldnt say the tribalism aspect is new, i.e. tabloids and tifosi, this is an interesting connection between the timing and commercialization of social media to generate hype/controversy you are making.

I would add Max' choice to not participate with Drive to Survive for example leaves a void that the sport/netflix can use to fill with their own narrative.

Interesting times we live in.