"Time for Bernie to go" - Di Montezemolo

[Devilsadvocate]

In many respects the Ferrari "extra's" is old news. Did anyone ever read this back in 2005? It's a very interesting article, basically it's a Q&A with Max, that not only suggests and questions the deal Ferrari gets/got but also reveals what is possible, or not, in terms of the teams going their own way...

"The majority of the teams say they should make the rules, not the FIA?
Provided the rules do not compromise safety or fairness this is entirely reasonable and the FIA would almost certainly accept their proposals. The problem is that they frequently fail to agree, leaving the FIA to try to find a compromise. The FIA has never refused a proposal which has the support of all the teams. Indeed, under the Concorde Agreement the teams already make the rules. Technical rules need 8 out of 10 in favour in the Technical Working Group. The FIA does not even have a vote in the Group. Then the proposed rules go to the Formula One Commission, where the teams have 12 votes and the FIA just one.

Are you against the possible manufacturers series which might compete with Formula One from 2008?
No. Part of our deal with the European Commission is that we should be fully prepared to accept and regulate a series in competition with Formula One.

So are you against GPWC or the new manufacturers grouping?
Absolutely not. They, and indeed the teams, are entitled to try to get more money from FOM or from anyone else. That is not our business. Nor is it our business if they fail or even end up with less than is currently on offer. They are also fully entitled to set up their own championship if they wish to. If they can agree on a realistic approach to technical rules, we might even adopt their ideas for the World Championship. The only thing we will not do is agree technical rules for the Formula One World Championship which might make it impossible for a top team to find a competitive engine were it to part company with its current supplier."

It seems to me the main stumbling block for any type of breakaway series was team unity. Currently this isn't a problem. One interesting comment I have read is that despite there being no current Concorde Agreement, the teams have a separate commercial contract with FOM that ties them. Does anybody here know any more on that? I've searched but not found anything to substantiate that claim!

I share duke_toaster's view, and I have said it before too, FOTA are the best people to run the commercial side of things, certainly in the short term. I am now just curious now as to how realistic the opportunity is.

[Adam43]

Back in the day the problem was that the teams couldn't organise a good old knees up in a brewery. Then Bernie came along and sorted them all out and they were very happy because they were getting more money. Could the teams have negotiated such deals with the tracks, or got F1 on TVs live every other Sunday as de rigueur? And done that while promoting tracking safety and making them all rich at the same time?

[old man]

Adam, They would have to invent Bernie all over again, when did FOCA become FOM?

[Bononi]

That's the classic case of "I've became what I am because of you and you became what you are because of me. We're the same, two parts to form one, you can't do it without me and I can't do it without you."

[Marbot]

A 'marriage of convenience'.

[duke_toaster]

Bernie has managed to get F1 to its current state, but in order for it to be taken further I feel that it needs to move towards team control.

[Bononi]

This is the right time, the old man must have vision for that.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by Bononi

This is the right time, the old man must have vision for that.

Actually I am not sure that this is the right time. There are a nimber of hurdles to jump before it can become a reality and present market and economic conditions are not that suitable right tnow.

all that can change in an instant but right now is probably not a good time at all and I personally do not see it changing in the sort term future however desirable it may be.

The best time to date would have been when the FIA conferred the 100 year rights to to market F1 to Bernies organisation. This is what has made the 'rights' so valuable economically and is why we now have CVC controlling the sport.

[Bononi]

That's why I used to word "vision"...

[p261brm]

GO! GO! GO! Murreyism on target again, Just go; a load of balderdash about the Teams could not organise a good night out in a brothel with a fistfull of fivers, or such like, at least they had the choice pre FOM, almost one engine, gearbox etc except for F........ n' dear old BRM, but we had RACING, and most could AFFORD IT! Even when RACING appears, they C..k n' Bull some reg to exclude the deserving winner. The GBP could visit the paddock even chance to meet their hero's instead of exclusion, and the Dear Old Blazers would not get their telly turned off, in THEIR clubhouse; exit that.... but I am not allowed here even to begin to describe my absolute distaste of anything FOM and FIA. Ron, Frank and Christian's fizzy pop team are more than capable of running the F1 championship, as long as they don't let comrade Fry anywhere near n' keep those Blo*** Red Cars away from too much say; Safety must of course must be still mindfull, but I am sure it will remain uppermost by who ever eventually runs the show, The Prof and his 'Team' built a record second to none, and 'that man' even stole most of the kudos for that.

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by Good Times

There are more thing's out there that are more important than F1 racing my friend's.
It is all history that you are coming up with.
Job done, forget it.

From of coarse a Ferrari fan for 45 year's, but worked at Cooper & knew RD well in my early day's in Woking.
I have to say, I give up with F1 & I would hope Ron will to.
Take a rest buddy & try to find our family again.

Tex?

[fomoco]

time to go bernie, how many years to late is that call

[p261brm]

I just hope the EX Mrs Ecclestone relieves the so n' so of the major share of his folding.

[Marbot]

Montezemolo has a friend.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21069.html

The phrase,same ****,different year,springs to mind.

Although many would agree with what he's saying,he hasn't done too badly out of it himself.

[Oldtony]

More and more people joining the call for a change in structure and a change in direction. In the end even the most benign dictators loose the plot and become a menace.
I was reminded by the scenes in Beunos Airies at the start of the Dakar that here is another foundation country in F1 history that no longer has a GP. Argentine has provided some great champions, and a couple of constructors, and fairly obviously still has great interest in motor sport.
Currently we have a situation where France, the birthplace of the sport has no GP. Bernie doesn't like the facilities.
Britain, the home of much of F1's current racing construction is probably going to be without a GP in acouple of years. Bernie doesn't like the BRDC.
Germany has a problem that niether Hockenhiem or Nurburgring because they can't afford Bernies fees.
The US doesn't have a Gp because no one in the biggest economy in the world can make a buck after paying Bernies fees.
China, the worlds fastest growing economy is quibbling about resigning for future GP's because they don't see it as economically viable. Read don't like Bernies fees.
Canada has been dumped. Couldn't afford Bernies fees
Perhaps we can expect the WDC to be decided in Bahrain, Dubai, Qatar and Kuwait with a flyaway round in Singapore?
And of course there are always the people who are quick to stiffle critics of the current structure by commenting on "thier teams getting an ünfair share" or how well they have "done out of it".

[duke_toaster]

Time for FOTA to buy some of F1 Group, then? Bernie's house of cards will start to fall at some point, quite possibly soon. If the teams stumped up the dough and took control of the show they would be able to take F1 to where they want, in terms of race venues, promotion and have more control of regulations.

[davyboy]

They'll be dealing with Slavica after Bernie's divorce settlement is done

[ivanalesi]

Here is a link from The Times' article with Sir JYS:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/spo...cle5447254.ece

I'm no fan of Sir Jackie, I don't think McLaren were punished enough, but I think he's pretty much bang on about everything else! I can't remember who was the executive's name who some years ago was talking about this in Harvard Business Review, he said that you can conclude someone is a great manager only after you see what happens with his company after he's retired from it. If everything fails, even though his results were excellent, then he hasn't done enough. Something like in Ferrari, you could see what a great job Todt and Brawn have done over the years since they are as competitive as before. When you think about Max or Bernie's successor, it's very very hard. Probably the most experienced organizer beside Bernie is Ratel, but FIA GT has a very rocky path. Dakar? Dakar in SA, what a marketing mess. Successor to Max? There's no obvious choice either, may be the young French guy!?
They have both not allowed anyone, anywhere close to their operations. We all knew about Domenicali or Baldisseri long before they assumed their roles, and the only other public face of FOM is Pasquale Someone.
I recently read a book about NFL(Tailgating, Sacks and Salary Caps by a sports business journalist for WSJ), how it managed to overtake baseball as America's pastime. When you look at their structure and methods, you realise how much more advanced they are than any sport in Europe. It's all so simple and yet organized, they have even managed to make their "GP2" into America's 3rd most watched sport! It's all about profit, more spectators, more fun and not all about big spending.

[duke_toaster]

Their GP2? Arena or college football? The NFL had an option to buy a stake in Arena but chose not to, and the NFL and NCAA college football are the same sport ran by totally different people - and totally different promotionally.

The NFL do have a good and stable model for running a sports league. F1 needs a revolution. It's either FOTA or Alan Gow (who would be a sensible man for FOTA to install as a neutral guy at the top).

[ivanalesi]

College football, not arena football, there you've got kids playing only for their scholarship(sometimes of crappy college), no salary and all this at bigger capacity stadiums than we have in EU. It's amazing...

[old man]

Thanks for the Times link ivanalesi, that is a very good piece by JYS and in my case I agree with all he says. Anyone who studied management will have been told that one of the first rules is 'secure the succession' and neither Bernie not Max has done that. Since their days as the leaders of the Formula 1 Constructors Association (FOCA) when they got the sport together and spoke to organisers as one they have been very close. With Max in the FIA Bernie had the perfect solution and they are clever men who have worked hard to keep their association low key for many years.

Recent revelations about Ferrari and their cut of the cake have shown just how they have operated and the potential for a large number of races to disappear needs a pragamatic approach but the fact is that CVC own the rights and know nothing about running the championship so employ Bernie. A fall in income for CVC would result in them failing to meet their finacial commitments and only when they see such a crisis arising will they consider taking Bernie out of the equation but would find it difficult to find another ringmaster.

Perhaps it all needs to get worse before it will get better?

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by old man

Thanks for the Times link ivanalesi, that is a very good piece by JYS and in my case I agree with all he says. Anyone who studied management will have been told that one of the first rules is 'secure the succession' and neither Bernie not Max has done that. Since their days as the leaders of the Formula 1 Constructors Association (FOCA) when they got the sport together and spoke to organisers as one they have been very close. With Max in the FIA Bernie had the perfect solution and they are clever men who have worked hard to keep their association low key for many years.

Recent revelations about Ferrari and their cut of the cake have shown just how they have operated and the potential for a large number of races to disappear needs a pragamatic approach but the fact is that CVC own the rights and know nothing about running the championship so employ Bernie. A fall in income for CVC would result in them failing to meet their finacial commitments and only when they see such a crisis arising will they consider taking Bernie out of the equation but would find it difficult to find another ringmaster.

Perhaps it all needs to get worse before it will get better?

All of this presupposes they actually have any interest in succession. Something you have to seriously doubt.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by sizzle

All of this presupposes they actually have any interest in succession. Something you have to seriously doubt.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Old Man is right about good management, but then neither of them have the slightest interest in good management. Their common objective is maximizing what they can bleed from the gravy train they've contrived to create by using extreme autocratic control.

[ivanalesi]

I don't think $ is their primary motive anymore, it's getting more about personal beliefs. Like, I'm still capable, I've done so much, it has worked like that for 20 yrs and it will work for another 20 yrs... stubbornness and refusal to accept the need for changes. It's amongst many of the old guard.

[Teretonga]

Most leadership outlives its usefulness.
The trick is knowing when you have done everything you are capable of giving to an organisation and then leaving so the next person can take it to the next level.
This is not happening in F1.

Bernie was the person who helped organise the constructors into a group back in the 70's and early 80's to be a voice against the way the sport was run and give them some power and authority to get a better deal and more revenue.
Max worked for March, then Bernie, then the FIA, then stood against Balestre for the presidency. He dealt with the constructors when they tried to assert themselves against the FIA 20 years ago.

Bernie has gone full circle. He helped organise the constructors back in the FOCA days when they had no power. When his mate Max got in he persauded him to sell him the 100 year rights which effectively assigned the revenue to Bernie well after his retirement age. Then he sold it off for billions.

Bernie has fought for the constructors when he was one, then manipulated the revenue rights to F1 for himself and sold them off to commercial interests for his personal gain. Now he works for those people against the interests of the constructors. He has become the very epitomy of the thing he fought against back in the 70's and 80's.....