Historic Racers In Europe - Carnet Requirements?

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by Colin McKay

Good luck Andy. This was the scene yesterday at Ashford Customs. According to the local rag, although they didn't say if this was import or export, some drivers queued for 8 hours to clear. Older truckers on here will remember "standing on the stairs" at Dover. At least there was a roof then, "standing in the rain" seems to be the modern equivalent.

The Portacabins you can see are what is being used by HMRC while they continue building the new facility, last I heard it will not be open until the end of Feb. I imagine the lousy weather we're having will push that back further. Photo from the RHA.

If that's not 'Oven ready' I don't know what is.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Colin McKay

Good luck Andy. This was the scene yesterday at Ashford Customs. According to the local rag, although they didn't say if this was import or export, some drivers queued for 8 hours to clear. Older truckers on here will remember "standing on the stairs" at Dover. At least there was a roof then, "standing in the rain" seems to be the modern equivalent.

The Portacabins you can see are what is being used by HMRC while they continue building the new facility, last I heard it will not be open until the end of Feb. I imagine the lousy weather we're having will push that back further. Photo from the RHA.

Colin do you know if that pic is at Waterbrook or Sevington?

[Colin McKay]

The report says Waterbrook but they seldom get anything right!

[Newall Andy]

Ok so
On the road now.
No issue anywhere
Straight through
No checks only COVID
No one on the road in Europe
Happy days
Still... got to get home yet
Watch this space

Sorry it’s brief driving one handed !
Andy

[delta]

Originally Posted by Newall Andy

Ok so
On the road now.
No issue anywhere
Straight through
No checks only COVID
No one on the road in Europe
Happy days
Still... got to get home yet
Watch this space

Sorry it’s brief driving one handed !
Andy

May the force be with you Andy. Thanks for posting.

[Peter Mallett]

Fingers crossed.

[Newall Andy]

Originally Posted by delta

May the force be with you Andy. Thanks for posting.

The force is strong in this one

[Robert Farrell]

Andy,
Are you using a truck or a trailer? If a trailer, what are you towing it with,
van or car?

[midgetman]

This sounds really hopeful. Never mind the prognostications of MSUK stuck in their offices, on the ground we've been told it's not a problem. Perfect!

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by midgetman

This sounds really hopeful. Never mind the prognostications of MSUK stuck in their offices, on the ground we've been told it's not a problem. Perfect!

Sent from my AC2003 using Tapatalk

So far.......

[Newall Andy]

Originally Posted by Robert Farrell

Andy,
Are you using a truck or a trailer? If a trailer, what are you towing it with,
van or car?

Van and trailer
Trailers empty but could have been full no one bothered to look
Vans full
Jag engine and 2x 289s I’ve sold
Load of GT40 parts I’ve sold
3 x flight cases I’ve sold
Windscreens
You name it
All had invoices ready for inspection
Not a sole bothered
France v quiet
Belgium dead
Holland shutdown but no one appears to bother !
Just on my way to Germany

A

[Duddha]

What you may experience may be different than the text, however, and as a good friend and racer told me, it's up to the point one of us will be asked the question: "Anything to declare?" And that the answer of the custom agent will be: "Fine, let us have a look."

A couple of things for UK to EU:

1 - As a private or commercial entity, towing a car which is road registered and road legal, for which you can demonstrate ownership, the understanding is that there would be no need for ATA carnet in strict terms and a duplicate listing would do the job for all accompanying goods essentially related to the vehicle in question.

2 - As a private or commercial entity, towing a car which is road registered and road legal, for a third party, the understanding is that an ATA carnet is applicable in strict terms and associated carnets for spares related to the vehicle in question as well.

3 - As a multiple private or commercial entity, transporting cars which are either road registered and road legal or not for third parties, the ATA carnet is applicable in strict terms to all cars and associated carnets for spares related to the vehicle in question as well.

• Under ATA regime, an invoice stating ‘value for customs purposes only’ may be required for all consumable items entering with a vehicle e.g. Oil, brake fluid and anything which will be used and not returned.
• CPD or « Carnet de Passage en Douane » are not accepted or considered by the European Union.
• Duplicate listing are not accepted by the European Union as under regime of ATA Carnets and unless under Situation 1.

This would apply the other way around for EU to UK except that Case 1 would go under use of Form C110 "Non-UK private motor vehicle for personal use."

Now the big thing here and to close this, as to Situation 1 – It is likely that customs may require an ATA carnet even if the car is registered as the “intention” prevails. This meaning that even though the vehicle is registered and road legal, the usage and intention is for racing purpose only.

Last, as to the question of the deposit for ATA carnet, best is to go through a freight agent, they have the deposit already registered and will handle the work, small fee to pay but better than having to secure the full money yourself.

[Newall Andy]

Can only tell you what it’s been like today.
Good old Boris... stiff upper lip and crack on.

Still, could all change tomorrow

A

[andy97]

Originally Posted by Newall Andy

Van and trailer
Trailers empty but could have been full no one bothered to look
Vans full
Jag engine and 2x 289s I’ve sold
Load of GT40 parts I’ve sold
3 x flight cases I’ve sold
Windscreens
You name it
All had invoices ready for inspection
Not a sole bothered
France v quiet
Belgium dead
Holland shutdown but no one appears to bother !
Just on my way to Germany

A

Maybe on the ground the new situation / rules have not yet caught up?

[Rudernst]

Originally Posted by andy97

Maybe on the ground the new situation / rules have not yet caught up?

customs officials tend to be smarter than one would imagine..
they screen traffic and look for something unusual worth checking

if somebody crosses the border in a relaxed fashion with no apparent care in the world, the wont bother you

if you are on a little used border crossing road, that normally only locals would know about and use, lets say between Netherlands and Germany with an expensive car and a numberplate from far away, be prepared to get searched for drugs

use the same road towing a trailer of chickenshit to fertilize an outlying field, this is not very likely to get seached....


RudE

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by andy97

Maybe on the ground the new situation / rules have not yet caught up?

Sandwiches?

[Rudernst]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Sandwiches?

the sandwich clampdown was a bit of a cheap shot,
picking on the poorest blokes down the food chain

they should have made their case and let it go for a week for the truckie grapevine to get the word round

on the other hand:
I am greatly in favor of Napoleons concept of the Continental System
surely, this is the way to go




RudE

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Rudernst

the sandwich clampdown was a bit of a cheap shot,
picking on the poorest blokes down the food chain

they should have made their case and let it go for a week for the truckie grapevine to get the word round

Yes, we would call it using their discretion. (I mentioned it simply to point out that the rules appear to be known).

Originally Posted by Rudernst

on the other hand:
I am greatly in favor of Napoleons concept of the Continental System
surely, this is the way to go



RudE

One word: Waterloo

[Tim Falce]

I've only skim read this thread so apologies if I missed it but from my vague and distant memory when we needed trailer carnets in the early seventies for Europe I had to get them from the AA in Leicester square. They were pricey back then, I think £6 a go but that was because the AA provided a bond that they were liable for if you failed to bring the trailer back to the UK.
I stand to be corrected, and probably will be, but that's how I remember it. Does the price of the carnet now include that bond is do you have to get it on top?

[Gerard C]

Pick from # 62 above:
Last, as to the question of the deposit for ATA carnet, best is to go through a freight agent, they have the deposit already registered and will handle the work, small fee to pay but better than having to secure the full money yourself.
Does this help you, Tim?

[Peter Mallett]

Having read the advice in post 62 (thanks again Louis), what happens if the car is not road registered and/or has only a bill of sale as proof of ownership, but is being towed by a private individual? Also whilst spares and consumables must be listed for the vehicle, what about tools?

Just did a quick search and found this company https://www.ata-carnet.uk/eu/. There are others including the Birmingham CoC, so I may try to determine the costs for my MG to use as an example.

[Geraint Owen]

Originally Posted by Duddha

What you may experience may be different than the text, however, and as a good friend and racer told me, it's up to the point one of us will be asked the question: "Anything to declare?" And that the answer of the custom agent will be: "Fine, let us have a look."

A couple of things for UK to EU:

1 - As a private or commercial entity, towing a car which is road registered and road legal, for which you can demonstrate ownership, the understanding is that there would be no need for ATA carnet in strict terms and a duplicate listing would do the job for all accompanying goods essentially related to the vehicle in question.




Now the big thing here and to close this, as to Situation 1 – It is likely that customs may require an ATA carnet even if the car is registered as the “intention” prevails. This meaning that even though the vehicle is registered and road legal, the usage and intention is for racing purpose only.

Thanks for this Louis. It is most helpful. I am still disappointed that MUK didnt look at things in more detail before they published what they did this week.

But I would like to pick you up on one point. In red you state "it is likely". I would argue either they do or they do not. HMRC really need to have a clear position on this. Some definitive guidance is needed and it needs to be published so that it can be shown to any over zealous border guard. MUK could have done more to support its club level licence holders. I assume the rally guys are just as up in arms. The trackday crowd going to the 'Ring are.

There are other questions. What, for example, would they do if you were taking a car to show at Retromobile or on a driving holiday? Same car, same border but different intention. What happens if I want to do some road miles as well as track miles when in Europe? Given the car would be fine if driven it is tricky. I can see people being stopped and simply dropping the car off the trailer!

I have written to HMRC directly and asked them to clarify. I will share any reply

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Newall Andy

Can only tell you what it’s been like today.
Good old Boris... stiff upper lip and crack on.

Still, could all change tomorrow

A

Any update or should we send food parcels?

[Gerard C]

https://www.savorychicks.com/2016/05...-napoleon.html

[Newall Andy]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Any update or should we send food parcels?

Hi.
No all good thanks.
Still in Germany, off to Hamburg tomorrow, all hotels open if you have a business card, but the bars are closed 😔.
Still, you can buy Bitburger by the crate in supermarkets so the worlds all great.
COVID-19 test booked for 10.30 Tuesday at the local quacks so I can get back in when arriving home and it’s only 35 Euro !
Results while you wait.
Imagine a German trying to get that done in your local Boots !