General Sportscar Chat thread

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Or, as I thought, a joke. Sorry should have used a winky. If you have a problem PM me.

No worries - that's fine it read like a dig to me.

[Adam43]

It was more poking fun at all of us and our insular sportscar life. No malice intended whatsoever, not least because you're right it shouldn't pander to quick thrills. As no sport should, otherwise you can't build real knowledge and appreciation. I'm also a test match person not twenty-twenty for the same reason. Although there is nothing wrong with twenty-twenty it's just not for me. I do watch it, but I manage to not slag it off while doing so. If I did have a mild point to my silly comment it was that.

[Gingers4Justice]

Sportscar racing could and should be much more popular than it is. Like every section of the sport apart from F1, it will only have a niche following, bar a few mouth-watering battles at Le Mans. For example, very few follow county cricket, yet when the Ashes gets exciting and England look likely to win, all of a sudden the whole nation gets interested.

Test match cricket is actually the best comparison with endurance racing. Neither sport can ever have a year-round mainstream following - but neither has to be as niche as they pretend.

The WEC is clearly getting something wrong. The F1 media were bemoaning the wasted talent of Kobayashi missing out on a seat in F1 this year, and then as soon as he signed for Ferrari, he basically became dead to them! It was as if no one was interested what happened to him once he missed out on F1....

Cringey youtube videos and annoying tweets don't help the cause either. Nor does woeful commentary on Eurosport. These sorts of things make the sport seriously uncool. Which is quite some achievement considering what the product is....

[Mr Pink]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Sportscar racing could and should be much more popular than it is. Like every section of the sport apart from F1, it will only have a niche following, bar a few mouth-watering battles at Le Mans. For example, very few follow county cricket, yet when the Ashes gets exciting and England look likely to win, all of a sudden the whole nation gets interested.

Test match cricket is actually the best comparison with endurance racing. Neither sport can ever have a year-round mainstream following - but neither has to be as niche as they pretend.

The WEC is clearly getting something wrong. The F1 media were bemoaning the wasted talent of Kobayashi missing out on a seat in F1 this year, and then as soon as he signed for Ferrari, he basically became dead to them! It was as if no one was interested what happened to him once he missed out on F1....

Cringey youtube videos and annoying tweets don't help the cause either. Nor does woeful commentary on Eurosport. These sorts of things make the sport seriously uncool. Which is quite some achievement considering what the product is....

Can't pretend that I fully get the cricket reference but aside from that, very well put!

[Mal]

Unfortunately the only times I recall Le Mans being on the mainstream TV news is when there is a big accident - eg McNish and Mercedes Airlines

[GT6]

When i was growing up the result from Le mans was always on the BBC news but I have not actually been in the UK on the sunday to see the news in the last 30 years as I am either on my way home or still in Le mans

[Dario911]

Originally Posted by Mal

Mercedes Airlines

[Starfish Primer]

Originally Posted by Mal

Unfortunately the only times I recall Le Mans being on the mainstream TV news is when there is a big accident - eg McNish and Mercedes Airlines

In Spain when Gené won the 24hr it was ignored by the sports media. The average Joe links Gené to Ferrari instead of Peugeot, because works in TV as a F1 pundit.

[ArnageWRC]

Here in the UK McNish is known mainly as a former Toyota F1 driver, and similarly, Davidson is former F1 driver - not current LMP1 drivers......

I like the above story about Kobayashi - Raikkonen was similar when he went to WRC. Soon as he was announced as coming back - he was trending all over Twitter, and the F1 hacks were in raptures.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

I agree with Gingers4Justice that sports car racing especially in ACO form visually doesn't look cool now thanks to the way the sport is presented, which should be the complete opposite considering how aesthetically pleasing (okay, not that much anymore) the cars look compared to many other forms of motorsport.

The broadcast first of all with the exception of RLM is all over the place. One minute they're talking about the Toyota vs Audi battle for the lead, the next Stuart Hall's lunchtime or the battle for 11th in P2. The commentators (even at RLM) are completely out of synch with the world feed so they'll be screaming about some epic overtaking manoeuver for 5th in P1 like last year going into the Senna S at Brazil while meanwhile the geniuses at the world feed are showing the faces of Audi and Toyota mechanics or the 1st place P1 car boringly going along for an essential parade lap to victory. Liz Halliday making pig noises, the brilliance of Carlton Kirby, and of course the Emmy nominated () Robbie Knock hosting the 24 Hours of Le Mans preview show with "Jwonny Hwerrrbert" make you wish they'd just put RLM on the main Eurosport feed.

Let's be honest, 6 hour races aren't helping. It's hard to get viewers for races like Silverstone when essentially for 2 full hours (hours 3-5) nothing of any interest to the common viewer is happening at all. That's why I liked the old 480km (Id increase it to 500) distance used during the peak of popularity of the FIA WSCC, it was still endurance racing, but easy enough to look visually exciting and keep spectators at the circuit instead of headed to the gates or food stalls like we saw at Brazil last year. 6 Hours or 1000km should be for special races like Spa and Fuji.

Overall, there is much the sport can do to improve it's television coverage and visual presentation to make it 'cool' or even exciting to a non-diehard fan.

[TF110]

I wouldn't mind the GT cars being faster so there is more time during the lapped car process. And 10 rounds in the WEC would be great. Maybe timed races aren't the way to go and distance is. Another thing that will help is Porsche coming back. Toyota stepping up was just in time and hopefully Nissan jumps in P1. Then 'lotus' with maybe a P1 car next year with a new Rebellion and HPD, the top class is looking up imo.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Let's be honest, 6 hour races aren't helping. It's hard to get viewers for races like Silverstone when essentially for 2 full hours (hours 3-5) nothing of any interest to the common viewer is happening at all. That's why I liked the old 480km (Id increase it to 500) distance used during the peak of popularity of the FIA WSCC, it was still endurance racing, but easy enough to look visually exciting and keep spectators at the circuit instead of headed to the gates or food stalls like we saw at Brazil last year. 6 Hours or 1000km should be for special races like Spa and Fuji.

I agree and I'd support this, probably unpopular opinion on this board (?). 6 hour is simply a nightmare for tv. I can't see any mainstream channel (=Eurosport) every showing full races with this distance unless there is really empty weekend in terms of other more popular sports.

Maybe I am watching the wrong series but 6 hours of a day often feels like a burden. It's too short to be an epic like Sebring/LM/Petit but too long to create constantly more close and exciting racing. ELMS is already experimenting with shorter races, I can actually see this happening since it kind of happened during the original Championship and back then tv was much less important.

Between 198x-1992 the distances changed from season to season - before 1988 the few sprint races were 360km, 1989-1990: all races 480km, 1991: 430 km and then in 1992 back to mixed format (500km and 1000km - the original [cancelled] schedule). Seems like the were looking for the perfect distance already back then.

Btw, where does ALMS' 2h 45 min comes from? Fits more nicely to a 3 hour tv slot?

[Mal]

I think a variety of race lengths is the best so for a 10 race series we would have a 24hr, 12hr, 10hr, say 3 6hr and 4 3hr races.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by Mal

I think a variety of race lengths is the best so for a 10 race series we would have a 24hr, 12hr, 10hr, say 3 6hr and 4 3hr races.

I'd definitely be in favour of this and mixing it up a bit.

[GT6]

However the problems arises that the races the TV wants like LM, Spa, Silverstone will still be 6 hours or more, the shorter races might be the right length for TV but they will never have the drawing potential of the big races

[gregtummer]

Thats what I liked about the the big races 2011 and before. You had different circuit varieties and different race lengths. Each presented different challenges.

24 Hours of Le Mans
12 Hours of Sebring
10 Hours/1000miles Road Atlanta


Now it is kind of a bland 6 hours on mostly Tilke tracks.


I would be okay with some shorter sprint races thrown in if we could get 10 races.

2 Hours 30 min of Mosport
2 Hours 30 min of Potrero de los Funes

Those tracks could piggy back on the schedule on the way to Austin and Brazil with a made for TV race length.

[Mal]

They could also do with one or two street races and these generate interest amongst people who would not normally go.

[Starfish Primer]

If we put 2:30 hours races then is not anymore the World ENDURANCE Championship, it would be another thing.

[gregtummer]

Originally Posted by Starfish Primer

If we put 2:30 hours races then is not anymore the World ENDURANCE Championship, it would be another thing.

That is the least of my concerns.

Besides, I always like World Sports Car Championship much better anyways.

[GT6]

Perhaps we should give the WEC a little more time, if next year it does not start to gain momentum then it will have to change and keep changing until it finds a format that catches the imagination and succeeds.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Starfish Primer

If we put 2:30 hours races then is not anymore the World ENDURANCE Championship, it would be another thing.

Guess what official name the old championship used between 1981-1985 until the manufacturers wanted it changed? And this was before the shortened race formats.

[TF110]

The name is a side issue. I like the 6 hour races. Think Spa should be 8 hours or more. Fuji and Silverstone as well. China and Bore-rain should be 4 hour races imo. Brazil is good at 6 but running into the night was great when Peugeot won there. Add two more rounds in America and Europe at least! Nurburgring is rumored, and another U.S. race would do no harm. They also spoke of India which is the 2nd most populous country. They need Chandhok to do some PR and it would be great to see them at that circuit.

[Mr Pink]

I agree that they should experiment a bit with the race format!
I also think they should try and tap into markets/areas where F1 don't go and avoid tilkedromes, they´re just not very suitable for sportscars.

[Dario911]

Various lenght races seem to be a best receipt for a successful WEC.

- Two 24 hours (Le Mans and Daytona)
- Two 12 hours (Sebring, Spa)
- One 10 Hours (Petit Le Mans)
- Five 6 hours (Silverstone, Monza, Sao Paulo, Fuji, Shanghai)

Two hours races seem to be less endurance events, but idea would be good for a spin-off championship: World Interseries Championship!

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Dario911

Various lenght races seem to be a best receipt for a successful WEC.

- Two 24 hours (Le Mans and Daytona)
- Two 12 hours (Sebring, Spa)
- One 10 Hours (Petit Le Mans)
- Five 6 hours (Silverstone, Monza, Sao Paulo, Fuji, Shanghai)

Two hours races seem to be less endurance events, but idea would be good for a spin-off championship: World Interseries Championship!

Those 3 American tracks you wont see the WEC on. Not with the current uscr situation. Road America I would love to see.